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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Leonormous Boozer" data-source="post: 984270" data-attributes="member: 45598">I'm not a rugby guru but I'm going to continue being condescending as long as you continue to be ultra defensive, either lack reading comprehension or bend what I say to suit your argument, and lack self-awareness by continuing to not give any credit to any team other than England. Because that's just bad manners.  So England's unforced errors allowed SA to play to their strengths and therefore it was all England's fault and that's why the source of points matter? But Henshaw not finding the stands or grass with a clearance kick that he had all the time you'd ever want which gave England a set piece to attack quickly from and then him being on the wrong side of the pitch for no reason hanging Earls out to dry first and then Stockdale for the second try isn't unforced. And presumably neither was Murray's bad passing off good ball, I'm pretty sure one of which led to the scrum for Slade's first try. Why don't these count? Because they were less obvious or because you don't notice them because you're understandably only focused on England? You're making my point for me here.  Nah, I've consistently spoken about the hypothetical game where two sides are at there very best, where you'd expect some semblance of parity with the teams mentioned. Also never said England would lose to Ireland just that they'd lose to someone. Like really? I've said I think 5 teams in world rugby are better than England in this regard and you bring up France and Australia? The 5 are SA, NZ (which I actually take back, England are better than them in this regard) Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Now it shouldn't be a factor v Scotland because England should dominate them and yet it has been the last two meetings. You're right about the Wales games but I think their personnel changes, Davies for Webb and Amscombe for Bigger as well as Parkes who is quietly an intelligent if unskilled player edged it for them last year. South Africa had the best half back pairing in the world last year so that shouldn't be contentious and I did insert a few ifs with Ireland but Cooney and Sexton have been performing better at club level than any England halfbacks since the world cup and obviously Sexton has credit in the bank, Leinster have also been using Larmour very effectively as a playmaker and this should translate, but if Ireland don't turn around their form up front it's fairly moot. Anyway, it's not a definite deciding factor but it's a point of difference in my opinion.  That's fine, we've strayed here though.  I never said that though, don't claim I've been having hissy fits, applying double standards or complain about me being condescending when I've been perfectly clear and collected and you've either misinterpreted it or put words in my mouth and getting worked up about it. And Ireland were better in every area the year before, we could go on? I don't want to. Anyway I said I think one of Ireland or Wales would click while England will have a world cup hangover. About three England fans agreed with me and you're the one trying to make this an England v Ireland thing, I don't think we'll win in Twickenham. Even if Ireland win a grand slam I wouldn't say there definitely better than England. (I did in 2018 but I've learnt enough since) No, I chose two years because one of my three main points is how international form is fickle and both our countries have been massively up and down in those two years... I have no agenda. But you're listing all these matches and saying how great England are but there's still no trophy, it's worth pointing out. I hope the 4th response up the way clears it up? If not I don't think we're going to see eye to eye.</blockquote>

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