Pitch Perfect - Gloucester Might Be Joining The 4G Revolution

[GarethGriffiths]

According to the recent Supporters Meeting with Stephen Vaughan, a 4G pitch could be installed at Kingsholm for 2018-19.

With clubs such as Cardiff Blues and Merthyr using pitches like this, are they a good idea or a bad investment? I heard that Pontypridd might be ditching theirs, so am keen to find out which playing surface fellow forumites prefer.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Booooooooo

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Why not get a hybrid pitch.

Tigers hybrid pitch is lush AF.

I HATE 4G pitches.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

I wish we could, Tigs Man, but it's always the same old story with us - money at the club is tighter than a Nun's (ahem).

A Desso pitch IMO would have been better, but MSQ (Martin St. Quinton) and SV have favoured a 4G pitch for some time. Most fans don't want the change but I guess will just have to either suck it up or go and watch Hartpury instead.

A few fans have said they are walking away from Glaws due to a lack of ambition as well.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You know tigers don't have a sugar daddy right? We went for the cheaper Desso i think the one used in edan park and rugby grounds down south more.

We have also had to buy the land next to us (to build a hotel on) and built a new stand.

I thought Glous was still turning a profit?

 

[GarethGriffiths]

We're always pleading poverty down at Kingsholm, Tigs Man.

I think you are correct with regards us turning over a profit - I'm not 100% knowledgable with regards to the finances (although a few fans I know keep tabs on it) but I would say that maybe Leicester are more success-driven than we are at the present time. They do appear to be a well-run club.

Even when we do have money from season tickets, shirt sales and the concerts we put on it still is not enough (or at least that is the perception) to bring in the big guns. I'll give you an example of the type of player we were supposedly in the market for - Peter Stringer. A great player in his day but he's 39 years old!

We are going to lose Ben Morgan and Ross Moriaty soon as well (Saracens and an un-named French side, possibly Stade Francais, have shown interest in both) so we are going to struggle if we can't splash the cash.

 

[dullonien]

According to the recent Supporters Meeting with Stephen Vaughan, a 4G pitch could be installed at Kingsholm for 2018-19.

With clubs such as Cardiff Blues and Merthyr using pitches like this, are they a good idea or a bad investment? I heard that Pontypridd might be ditching theirs, so am keen to find out which playing surface fellow forumites prefer.

Correction, Ponty were using a 3G pitch, which is being re-laid due to concerns over friction burns. There's been no complaints that I know of over proper 4G pitches, such as the ones used by Cardiff Blues and Saracens. The benefit to the community can be important, as the pitch is usable all the time.

The hybrid pitches, such as the ones at the Liberty stadium, Principality stadium and soon to be Rodney Parade are impressive surfaces though. The Liberty always has an immaculate surface despite two top flight clubs using it, whilst the Principality pitch has been transformed from a bit of a joke into a world class playing surface due to the hybrid pitch.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Pah. Should be proper grass. There's a whole generation growing up who won't understand the joys of an arm wrestle in the mud.

Morgan to Saracens would be interesting. He's still only 28.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Correction, Ponty were using a 3G pitch, which is being re-laid due to concerns over friction burns. There's been no complaints that I know of over proper 4G pitches, such as the ones used by Cardiff Blues and Saracens. The benefit to the community can be important, as the pitch is usable all the time.

The hybrid pitches, such as the ones at the Liberty stadium, Principality stadium and soon to be Rodney Parade are impressive surfaces though. The Liberty always has an immaculate surface despite two top flight clubs using it, whilst the Principality pitch has been transformed from a bit of a joke into a world class playing surface due to the hybrid pitch.

Good to hear about Rodney Parade, it looked like a mud bath at times last season. I'm fair jealous, I'd head to more games in Edinburgh if I could be confident it'd be a playable surface if wet.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I'm late to this thread (as usual). I don't think that there is any such thing as a 4G pitch in anything other than marketing spin - the underlying (no pun intended) hardware is essentially the same, like the difference between buying a GTech Air Ram and a Dyson V6 . The RFU sent out a memo to all clubs to this effect, maybe it is out of date now, but I haven't heard so. As far as I'm aware, xG is not a properly defined term and only serves to muddy the waters in these debates. If I was to start a company fitting these, I'd be calling mine 5G (complete with flimsy reason that it's the next generation), but it wouldn't make them any better than those marketed as 4G.

I remember quite a storm in a teacup about Ponty's new pitch last season but never heard a conclusion. I can't quite remember the safeguarding process, I believe that it must come from an approved supplier and / or pass tests. I don't know if these tests are administered by the relevant union or World Rugby. In light of this news about Ponty, it appears that either the WRU or World rugby's process is insufficient and should be reviewed ASAP to avoid any further unnecessary injuries and expense.

As far as I can see, there are only two reasons to fit a 3G pitch in preference to a Desso (or equivalent) surface - you want to make more extensive use of the surface than Desso allows or you have trouble growing grass thanks to a lack of sunlight. Cost may also be a factor - I don't know if the installation and / or running costs of 3G are less than Desso. For community clubs, 3G is attractive (hence the RFU scheme to get 100 built around the country) as it creates the opportunity to generate significant revenue if there's enough demand within the local community to be able to rent it out for a decent amount of time. Unless the club have designs on renting their stadium to the local U14 six-a-side et al, which seems highly unlikely and as I've never heard of problems growing grass it seems like a strange idea to me.

I suppose it's possible that the powers that be think that it's the solution to any further flooding problems. It is certainly a solution, but surely preventative measures could also be put into place as part of fitting a Desso surface.

 

[RedruthRFC]

You know tigers don't have a sugar daddy right? We went for the cheaper Desso i think the one used in edan park and rugby grounds down south more.

No doubt you're better informed on this than me, but I thought that timescales was something to do with the decision, i.e. Tigers had a finite window in which to get the pitch fitted and Desso being a regularly small company couldn't fulfil the order.

Here's the list of pitches that use it from their website:

• Welford Rd (Home to Leicester Tigers Rugby Team) 2016
• Brentford Park 2015
• The Grove Hotel, Watford 2014
• National Stadium of Singapore installed in 2015
• Stadium Australia in Sydney Olympic Park
• Eden Park, New Zealand Originally installed in 2003 and hosts of the 2011 Rugby World Cup.
• Waikato, New Zealand (2011 Rugby World Cup )
• ANZ Pitches, (formerly Telstra Stadium) Australia installed in 2007 and resurfaced in 2014
• Hunters Stadium, Australia (AFC Asian Cup Australia 2015)
• Westpac Stadium, Australia, installed in 2014 (Hosts of ICC Cricket World Cup 2015)
• Melbourne Cricket Club, Australia. The first club to install Eclipse in 1999, re-surface program in 2014

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

No doubt you're better informed on this than me, but I thought that timescales was something to do with the decision, i.e. Tigers had a finite window in which to get the pitch fitted and Desso being a regularly small company couldn't fulfil the order.

Here's the list of pitches that use it from their website:

• Welford Rd (Home to Leicester Tigers Rugby Team) 2016
• Brentford Park 2015
• The Grove Hotel, Watford 2014
• National Stadium of Singapore installed in 2015
• Stadium Australia in Sydney Olympic Park
• Eden Park, New Zealand Originally installed in 2003 and hosts of the 2011 Rugby World Cup.
• Waikato, New Zealand (2011 Rugby World Cup )
• ANZ Pitches, (formerly Telstra Stadium) Australia installed in 2007 and resurfaced in 2014
• Hunters Stadium, Australia (AFC Asian Cup Australia 2015)
• Westpac Stadium, Australia, installed in 2014 (Hosts of ICC Cricket World Cup 2015)
• Melbourne Cricket Club, Australia. The first club to install Eclipse in 1999, re-surface program in 2014

from what i was told it was mostly price.

 

[RedruthRFC]

The hybrid pitches, such as the ones at the Liberty stadium, Principality stadium and soon to be Rodney Parade are impressive surfaces though. The Liberty always has an immaculate surface despite two top flight clubs using it, whilst the Principality pitch has been transformed from a bit of a joke into a world class playing surface due to the hybrid pitch.

Is this true? I happened to do a tour of the stadium while it was being fitted and the guide talked about the problems experienced with the previous surface which were partially down to some areas of the ground not getting any sunlight. I remember thinking at the time that Desso isn't going to solve this problem and subsequently noted bare patches when it as back in use. I've not noticed this since which might tell a story in itself, is the problem sorted? I remember thinking at the time that surely lighting rigs were the solution, but didn't want to be the smart arsed Englishman (albeit with a Celtic accent) who thinks he knows best by pointing it out! Desso would certainly sort out the trouble with the surface not rooting properly, but any non-pallet system would have done this.

 

[dullonien]

I'm late to this thread (as usual). I don't think that there is any such thing as a 4G pitch in anything other than marketing spin - the underlying (no pun intended) hardware is essentially the same, like the difference between buying a GTech Air Ram and a Dyson V6 . The RFU sent out a memo to all clubs to this effect, maybe it is out of date now, but I haven't heard so. As far as I'm aware, xG is not a properly defined term and only serves to muddy the waters in these debates. If I was to start a company fitting these, I'd be calling mine 5G (complete with flimsy reason that it's the next generation), but it wouldn't make them any better than those marketed as 4G.

I was under the impression that xG relates to the generation of the technology. So when there's been a significant step forward in the technology used there's a new G rating. it's probably not very accurate or scientific, with things varying from company to company. However, I understand that a pitch classed as a 4G is a significant step-up in quality compared to one classed as a 3G, and they cost a significant amount more money too. I've not researched things properly though, so this may all be bs. We did specify a 3G pitch for a primary school we designed a while ago, but I didn't get hugely involved in that process.

Is this true? I happened to do a tour of the stadium while it was being fitted and the guide talked about the problems experienced with the previous surface which were partially down to some areas of the ground not getting any sunlight. I remember thinking at the time that Desso isn't going to solve this problem and subsequently noted bare patches when it as back in use. I've not noticed this since which might tell a story in itself, is the problem sorted? I remember thinking at the time that surely lighting rigs were the solution, but didn't want to be the smart arsed Englishman (albeit with a Celtic accent) who thinks he knows best by pointing it out! Desso would certainly sort out the trouble with the surface not rooting properly, but any non-pallet system would have done this.

I think they were using lighting rigs with the old system for a number of years, which helped things, but didn't solve the rooting issue which was leading to the pitch cutting up. I think the Desso system helps knit the surface together better, because despite not being a pallet system anymore, there's still a reduced thickness of soil. The surface certainly looks immaculate every time I've seen it since the change + it doesn't cut-up anymore.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I was under the impression that xG relates to the generation of the technology. So when there's been a significant step forward in the technology used there's a new G rating. it's probably not very accurate or scientific, with things varying from company to company. However, I understand that a pitch classed as a 4G is a significant step-up in quality compared to one classed as a 3G, and they cost a significant amount more money too. I've not researched things properly though, so this may all be bs. We did specify a 3G pitch for a primary school we designed a while ago, but I didn't get hugely involved in that process.

A quick Google search throws up a couple of articles that support my understanding:

http://www.sportsandsafetysurfaces....e-in-3g-4g-5g-6g-synthetic-artificial-pitches

https://blog.mylocalpitch.com/2g-3g-4g-know-playing-surface/

World Rugby's website says the following:

"What is the difference between 3G and 4G artificial turf systems?

3G (third generation) is a term used to describe the current technology used in creating an artificial turf system comprised of yarn laid on a backing, plus sand and infill. The term 4G can usually be found in marketing materials and is used primarily as a sales tool but is not an accurate representation of any system currently on the market."

The transition from 2G to 3G was about the move from sand to rubber crumb. As far as I'm aware, there has been no such further development to justify a rebrand from 3G to 4G, 5G or 78G. Furthermore, there is nothing other than companies' own marketing spin to say that more expensive means better quality (however you quantify that) or more importantly in the context of the discussion improved safety.