Owen...

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Every reason/excuse for his call up can be batted away with ease.

1. Covers 10/12? So does TJ who has form/fitness on his side and also covers 15. There are probably 10+ players who would make a better like for like Daly replacement - even if they just covered the back three and not 13.
2. Has leadership skills, intensity and raises standards. So did Sexton and he is already there. If coaches haven't been able to do that so far then the wrong coaches were selected.

No matter what anyone says, he is there because his Dad wants him there and that's it. Maybe it's a last chance to work together and Owen's last chance to be part of a Lions tour. It's done now and I suspect the fall out would be much greater if this tour was in SA or NZ where the decision would be more costly. If the Lions win this series it'll be quickly forgotten.

If the Lions win the first two tests I fully expect him to be in the test 23 for the third test if not starting. He may even be involved in the second test at the expense of the Smiths.

I totally agree with this post. The only thing I would add is that I don't understand the argument that players would rather have a fellow player having a go at them than the coach having a go at them. If a fellow player had the cheek to have a go at me, particularly a player that has played as badly as Farrell has this season, I would be really ****** off and want to punch them in the face. Whereas if the coach picked me up on something then fair enough. Thats his job.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

2. Has leadership skills, intensity and raises standards. So did Sexton and he is already there. If coaches haven't been able to do that so far then the wrong coaches were selected.

That's a fair point, if losing Daly throws your entire leadership/experience structure out of whack then you probably had the balances ****** up in the first place - like would Daly have even toured if he didn't have the 6N that he did?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Shouting at people in training is not leadership. Worth noting that these are professionals and probably don’t need shouting at, if they drop a ball they won’t have meant to.

This ain’t the 80s anymore.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I don’t what the reason is for his call up, but I also think it’s cloud cuckoo land to suggest it’s just because his Dad wanted to work with him / give him a final tour / decent pay day / not upset his wife.

There must be some issue on field or off where it’s felt he can help.

Shouting at people in training is not leadership. Worth noting that these are professionals and probably don't need shouting at, if they drop a ball they won't have meant to.

This ain't the 80s anymore.

More’s the pity.

Leadership doesn’t have to be shouting, but it absolutely can be robust and forthright.

 

[odw26]

There must be some issue on field or off where it's felt he can help.

Can't see it being an on-field issue considering all 10s and centres are still fit and, if it was, calling up a player who has been out of the international game for a couple of years and played sporadically this year at domestic level would be a strange way to try to fix that.

 

[dirty harry]

Every reason/excuse for his call up can be batted away with ease.

1. Covers 10/12? So does TJ who has form/fitness on his side and also covers 15. There are probably 10+ players who would make a better like for like Daly replacement - even if they just covered the back three and not 13.
2. Has leadership skills, intensity and raises standards. So did Sexton and he is already there. If coaches haven't been able to do that so far then the wrong coaches were selected.

No matter what anyone says, he is there because his Dad wants him there and that's it. Maybe it's a last chance to work together and Owen's last chance to be part of a Lions tour. It's done now and I suspect the fall out would be much greater if this tour was in SA or NZ where the decision would be more costly. If the Lions win this series it'll be quickly forgotten.

If the Lions win the first two tests I fully expect him to be in the test 23 for the third test if not starting. He may even be involved in the second test at the expense of the Smiths.

2 very important points you are 100% right on.

1. His dad 100% wants him there, he wants every player in the squad there, he selected all of them lol.

2. That will be the proof in the pudding, an undeserved test place in a dead rubber would be a Cory Hill style slap in the face.

Regards to playing standards, coaches can't dictate those standards to the same degree, it just isn't possible without risking relationships. Coaches set the standards, players drive them as high as they get, that is a Gregor Townsend quote from Glasgow days.

 

[Ddanno]

Your having an argument with a hyperbole version you've created.

The ******* brass neck on you

 

[Dean Cooperfield-West]

Farrell will play a part in the deciding test. He'll come on get red carded for a no arms tackle within 20 mins. The Lions will lose and Andy Farrell's coaching reputation will be in tatters and tainted by calling him up

 

[dirty harry]

The ******* brass neck on you

Go troll elsewhere, this is a rugby discussion not a primary school ground.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

The England cricket team have a player called Ben Stokes who is only in the team for his captaincy skills. He doesn't score many runs with the bat and often his knee injury means he cant bowl. I find this a ridiculous situation as well. They may as well put Stokes on the coaching staff and make room in the side for someone that will contribute on the pitch.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Just read an extract from Andy’s book in which he says that Owen was originally selected but turned down a place, agreeing to go on the injury standby list instead.

Fair play to the guy if that’s right. Very much leadership type reasons and I guess a certain logic as he was one of a relatively small number who knew what a ‘normal’ tour was all about, the previous one having been Covid disrupted. And I suppose implicitly a trusted support figure for Itoje who had plenty to deal with as a pretty raw captain.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Just read an extract from Andy's book in which he says that Owen was originally selected but turned down a place, agreeing to go on the injury standby list instead.

Fair play to the guy if that's right. Very much leadership type reasons and I guess a certain logic as he was one of a relatively small number who knew what a 'normal' tour was all about, the previous one having been Covid disrupted. And I suppose implicitly a trusted support figure for Itoje who had plenty to deal with as a pretty raw captain.

Jamie George would have been the obvious option. There is no way in hell Farrell should have ever been offered to tour. I get coaches love to wax lyrical about how great he is but he isn’t that good on the pitch, he hasn’t been for ages. Should never have toured this time at all.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Just read an extract from Andy's book in which he says that Owen was originally selected but turned down a place, agreeing to go on the injury standby list instead.

Fair play to the guy if that's right. Very much leadership type reasons and I guess a certain logic as he was one of a relatively small number who knew what a 'normal' tour was all about, the previous one having been Covid disrupted. And I suppose implicitly a trusted support figure for Itoje who had plenty to deal with as a pretty raw captain.

Let be honest, he was selected because he was the coaches son.

 

[Saintjay]

Let be honest, he was selected because he was the coaches son.

And Johnny Sexton's only friend.

 

[Welsh Exile]

And Johnny Sexton's only friend.

Don’t be silly, there’s no way Sexton has any friends.

 

[dirty harry]

Let be honest, he was selected because he was the coaches son.

You know i defended his selection late into the tour, as the guy to help shape culture and set standards etc, id even liken it to players being selected for their proximity instead of performance abilities, but to get test time is a disgrace, and lets be honest he looked what he was, not up to standard.