• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Operation Mincemeat

I saw the film about this a few years ago, I thought it was awesome!
 
This is just about to start on BBC 2, but I thoroughly recommend everyone see the Clarkson-presented documentary about "Operation Chariot".
 
Changed the course of the war my ass. The red army were still going to march west and destroy Germany.


Clarkson's show was very good though.
 
Changed the course of the war my ass. The red army were still going to march west and destroy Germany.


Clarkson's show was very good though.

They probably were, but Italy collapsed like a pack of cards. It definitely helped. One of the biggest things that changed the war was Hitler's insistence on building battleships and not U-Boats.
 
Watched it, enjoyed it somewhat, although it was a bit black, no?


The Italians were bloody useless in World War II. I can remember hearing about an Italian army of about 100,000 being encircled by a British force of around 30,000 and asking to go home(My brother told me, so correct me if I'm wrong.). That said, if I came from that part of the world I wouldn't want to fight in the Sahara when I could be at home in Tuscany.
 
I've not watched it yet, it's been taped and I'll watch it on my 4 days off.

The Italians were pretty hopeless, but they were a pain in the backside in the grand scheme of things. Hitler committing a Panzer division to Greece because of Mincemeat was just another nail in his eastern front campaign. Thank god he started ignoring his generals, because he could have killed Britain off with 50 more U-Boats and why he invaded Russia is something only he can answer.
 
I suspect that the whole thing with Russia was a bit two part:

Firstly he wasn't all that fond of the Bolsheviks. They pretty much went against everything he stood for. I don't think he thought that highly of the slavs as a race anyway so that may have just been the final nail in the coffin.

I'm more of the opinion though that he was trying to go better than Napoleon and his 1812 campaign. It would certainly fit in with his personality.

I'm currently reworking my way through "Stalingrad" by Beevor so I've got the eastern front on the brain :D
 
Oh there's no doubt that Hitler hated Russia and everything it stood for - but that's the fight he ought to have picked last. I firmly believe that Britain would never have surrendered, but we would have lost the war, had he not concentrated on the Bismark and Scharnhorst instead of building an extra 50 U-Boats like his generals advised him to. If he'd done that he'd have starved us out - but I don't think for one second we'd have surrendered. We would though have lost, and millions of people slaughtered in the process.

He was comfortable, if not in control on the western front and he has the Italians watching his south side, so why on earth did he go and invade Russia when he did? The timing of it was all wrong as well, he left his troops exposed to the elements at crucial times of the campaign. If you was in Hitler's position, what would possess you to go after the Russians first? Why not wait until the obstinate but struggling British were starved out of the picture?

I seem to remember being aware that Stalin was expecting Hitler to turn on him at some point, but I bet not even he was concerned it would happen so soon into the war.
 
Oh there's no doubt that Hitler hated Russia and everything it stood for - but that's the fight he ought to have picked last. I firmly believe that Britain would never have surrendered, but we would have lost the war, had he not concentrated on the Bismark and Scharnhorst instead of building an extra 50 U-Boats like his generals advised him to. If he'd done that he'd have starved us out - but I don't think for one second we'd have surrendered. We would though have lost, and millions of people slaughtered in the process.

He was comfortable, if not in control on the western front and he has the Italians watching his south side, so why on earth did he go and invade Russia when he did? The timing of it was all wrong as well, he left his troops exposed to the elements at crucial times of the campaign. If you was in Hitler's position, what would possess you to go after the Russians first? Why not wait until the obstinate but struggling British were starved out of the picture?

I seem to remember being aware that Stalin was expecting Hitler to turn on him at some point, but I bet not even he was concerned it would happen so soon into the war.

Completely true. Stalin refused to accept the idea of Germany invading up until the day the Wehmacht entered the USSR. He just couldn't see Hitler doing it.

I think Hitler thought that if he were to successfully conquer Russia he had to act fast. If he had focused soley on the west he would have expended alot of resources in attempting to subdue Britain (which as you said would've been far harder to take that France, partly due to geography, but mainly due to a more competent fighting force and a more stubborn population) while Stalin would have been building his strength in the East. Large elements of Soviet military command knew an attack was all but certain and had the German invasion come in say 1944 the Red Army would have been far more prepared and perhaps would have stuck preemptively.

Hitler's downfall IMO was the his constant interference in operation Blue in southern Russia which stopped them reaching the oil fields of the Caucuses and his failure to defeat the Royal navy as you said.
 
Hitler's downfall IMO was the his constant interference in operation Blue in southern Russia which stopped them reaching the oil fields of the Caucuses and his failure to defeat the Royal navy as you said.

Absolutely agreed. The Battle of Britain was also massively crucial as his initial masterplan was control of the skies.
 

Similar threads

P
Replies
5
Views
1K
feicarsinn
F
Top