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New Zealand New Flag Choices down to 4!

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)

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Not a fan of any really esp considering it costed $26 million!!!!!! New Zealanders care to voice your views?

Out of the 4 this is IMO the best:
_85293005_silver-fern-black-white-and-blue-flat.jpg


then alrigh
_85293012_silver-fern-red-white-and-blue-flat.jpg


then not really a country flag IMO
_85293010_black-and-white-fern-flat-1.jpg


Then WTF??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
_85292730_koru-black-flat.jpg



Really are any of these that much better than the current one?

Come on NZ.
 
I agree, none of them are really superb. Major NZ news sites like Stuff and The Herald have comment sections where the majority of people seem to be against changing the flag, and are somewhat embarrassed that this has made international headlines.

There is a rising inequality over here, extremely high house prices in the main cities, children going to school hungry and it's a slap in the face for a lot of people. I do think we'll need to change our flag one day to become a republic and distinguish ourselves more from the Australians. Whether now is the right time or not is another discussion. We're not exactly riding a financial wave and times aren't as good as they were pre-Global Recession, despite the economy growing.

If had to choose from the options, I'd say I prefer the second. I would also wager a bet that the second one down is what will run up against the current flag in our second referendum. (the first referendum is basically to choose our favorite from the options you listed.) From there, I'm not sure how I'd vote. Leaning towards keeping the current, but I'm not opposed to change itself.

Tbh our banking notes that have been redesigned that are coming out in the next two years are more exciting and pretty-looking than the flag. Oh btw, the last one incorporates a Maori Koru pattern. (but I agree .. WTF indeed).
 
Besides the current Government falling out of favor and other pressing issues to spend $26 million on, I just think a lot of people here lost respect for the process of change when the alternatives would turn our flag into crap on a cloth. A lot of joke alternatives. I mean, what the hell is this!!?

1441079384323.png
 
The new Kiwis flag should be the All Blacks logo
 
Personally I would ho with the second option. Would have simply likes the silver fern with black background.

In terms of the referendum - I think a lot of people vastly overstate how much this costs - and many things like "kids go to school hungry" is frankly rhetoric left over from that idiot Hone Hariwera.

$24m for a referendum which hasn't occured in over 100 years is pretty easy. It was a promise of the Government to do this referendum in their third term. Considering the Government's budget has increased spending in Health and Education each year it has been in Parliament, with the last budget focusing very heavily on those at risk (which Labour had to flip-flop and say it was Middle New Zealand being let down), I think $24m is probably fine to spare. Spend time in NZ reviewing local govt decisions, Masterton is spending nearly $300,000 on two very crappy statues, if you want to look at waste.
 
Think they all look pretty pants, to be fair.

The 2nd one looks like if someone made a knock-off NBA logo mixed with a fearn.
 
I'm for referendums in general, but on changing a flag? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.

And if there is to be a change, the amount spent by governments and private enterprises on rebranding would be so pointless.

Top one is definitely the best. The bottom two aren't flags, the second from top definitely looks sports-y.

Surely an all-black flag makes the most sense?
 
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I think it was something like 78% didn't want a change last time a sample poll was taken, so i'm not sure why they are even are contemplating a change TBH.

They probably need to change some laws to protect abuses against the bill of rights and treaty of Waitangi etc, despite how remote the chances of these abuses may be.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/283086/flag-change-'opening-the-gates-of-hell'

If there are no legal/rights issues, I can't see a problem with one of the Silver Fern/Southern Cross options, as it would be easily recognisable as our flag, in mich the same way as the Canadian flag is
 
I'm for referendums in general, but on changing a flag? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.

And if there is to be a change, the amount spent by governments and private enterprises on rebranding would be so pointless.

Top one is definitely the best. The bottom two aren't flags, the second from top definitely looks sports-y.

Surely an all-black flag makes the most sense?

At the moment, no. I mean, it would make sense, but it also looks a little too much like the Isis flag. I would rather people get use confused with Australia than an international terrorist network. And personally from an aesthetic point of view, I think we can do better than black and white. This is a rich country in terms of natural resources and beauty. The last two, or a silver fern on a black background don't reflect that imo. As John Oliver also said, it looks like a vegetarian pirate ship.

TRF_nickdnz said:
$24m for a referendum which hasn't occured in over 100 years is pretty easy. It was a promise of the Government to do this referendum in their third term. Considering the Government's budget has increased spending in Health and Education each year it has been in Parliament, with the last budget focusing very heavily on those at risk (which Labour had to flip-flop and say it was Middle New Zealand being let down), I think $24m is probably fine to spare. Spend time in NZ reviewing local govt decisions, Masterton is spending nearly $300,000 on two very crappy statues, if you want to look at waste.

For sure. There are local governments that pay a couple of people more money than Barrack Obama. We keep getting told to tighten our belt and stuff like that comes out in the news.

24 mill is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall problems, but it could still be a start. The Christchurch Earthquake recovery is being underfunded and the $1000 Government provided KiwiSaver kickstart has been removed. Yet we have enough money in the coffers to do this. I voted for the current Govt because I was tired of the last one not listening and making silly choices with money. Tide is turning a bit imo.
 
the first one i think looks the best of the bunch, second looks to logo-ish but looks 0k. what they could have done with the first flag have the fern and the red stars but either fully black or fully blue background. but it's just an opinion and up to the people of New Zealand to choose , yeah the current flag does have similarities to the Australian flag , and it is even more confusing when your looking at them as a tiny jpegs on certain sites that show their flags next to a team or player from those countries, but that not the reason to chance it of course. strange the kiwi bird not been selected for any of them
 
For sure. There are local governments that pay a couple of people more money than Barrack Obama. We keep getting told to tighten our belt and stuff like that comes out in the news.

24 mill is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall problems, but it could still be a start. The Christchurch Earthquake recovery is being underfunded and the $1000 Government provided KiwiSaver kickstart has been removed. Yet we have enough money in the coffers to do this. I voted for the current Govt because I was tired of the last one not listening and making silly choices with money. Tide is turning a bit imo.

That money was removed in order to fund additional money to solo parents ($24 per week I believe).

$24m is a lot of money for a person to spend - however it is an non issue on this scale in my opinion. Labour is now proposing an increase in parental leave up to 24 weeks. This initiative would cost the Government more money than the flag referendum - in its first week - and have stated it is part of it's process to increase it to 12 months!!! Obviously early child care is a more important issue than flags, but matters of scale are simply not reported on fairly. The health budget increased $2billion in the last budget.

To address 'the tide is shifting' - of course it is. New Zealand is a cyclical political system, and should Key win the next election he would have been in Parliament the longest since Richard Seddon.The media, like much of the country is more inclined to be heavily critical of the Government, and it's not necessarily a reflection on the performance of the Government either. Sadly, Labour are entirely a joke at the moment and are providing a very weak opposition.
 
There is a rising inequality over here, extremely high house prices in the main cities, children going to school hungry and it's a slap in the face for a lot of people.

Is so serious economic situation in NZ?
 
Is so serious economic situation in NZ?

No, it's media hyperbole for the most part. There are high house prices in Auckland for several reasons:

1. For years Auckland has been developed ahead of other regions. It has 1.4 million people compared to the next largest cities which have around 350,000 people. Immigration largely goes through Auckland, while for years Auckland has been taking buisnesses to relocate there. The results are Auckland had a lot of jobs but not all the infrastructures to support people.
2. They refuse to extend the urban-rural boundry, which would free up more land but increase sprawl.

In my mind it isn't an issue, it's basic supply and demand. Auckland is expensive to live in...don't complain or live in another NZ city which has been neglected. There is a housing crisis in Christchurch - but that is still a problem created by the Earthquake.

Children going to school hungry is frankly BS. Most low decile school currently have deals with companies like Fontera to provide at risk schools. It was basically a result of a poorly thought out members Bill by Hone Hariwera (the Donald Trump of NZ) which was shot down by the GOVT, and spun by media as not caring about hungry kids.
 
No, it's media hyperbole for the most part. There are high house prices in Auckland for several reasons:

1. For years Auckland has been developed ahead of other regions. It has 1.4 million people compared to the next largest cities which have around 350,000 people. Immigration largely goes through Auckland, while for years Auckland has been taking buisnesses to relocate there. The results are Auckland had a lot of jobs but not all the infrastructures to support people.
2. They refuse to extend the urban-rural boundry, which would free up more land but increase sprawl.

In my mind it isn't an issue, it's basic supply and demand. Auckland is expensive to live in...don't complain or live in another NZ city which has been neglected. There is a housing crisis in Christchurch - but that is still a problem created by the Earthquake.

Children going to school hungry is frankly BS. Most low decile school currently have deals with companies like Fontera to provide at risk schools. It was basically a result of a poorly thought out members Bill by Hone Hariwera (the Donald Trump of NZ) which was shot down by the GOVT, and spun by media as not caring about hungry kids.

Not really that simple really; it really depends on which countries New Zealand is being compared to. For example, I would suggest that the cost of housing and living in general is high compared with some of the countries I've lived in. The taxation is high (when you factor in the GST as well), and the wages are low. I think it all depends on what part of New Zealand you live in, and also other factors, such as how many people a family's income has to support (I know of families/children that at times go hungry) ... as a general observation, I sadly see a less caring society/emphasis on yourself or your family, and too bad about everyone else. Yes, there are a lot of countries/people worse off than we are, but the gap between the people that "have" and the people that "have not" is widening.

We also are a small country (in terms of population), and face all of the issues that other small countries face in terms of trying to compete with larger countries in the Global market.
 
$24m is a lot of money for a person to spend - however it is an non issue on this scale in my opinion. Labour is now proposing an increase in parental leave up to 24 weeks. This initiative would cost the Government more money than the flag referendum - in its first week - and have stated it is part of it's process to increase it to 12 months!!! Obviously early child care is a more important issue than flags, but matters of scale are simply not reported on fairly. The health budget increased $2billion in the last budget.

I think it's a matter of timing. Christchurch looks like a war zone, and some of that is because an earthquake of this magnitude just takes a long time to clean up, some of it is because of bureaucracy like the City Council and EQC, but some of it is because we have a Government fixated on a paper thin surplus, about the size of what it costs to do this flag business. Forget referendums, how about we put some money towards fixing the infrastructure of New Zealand's second largest city? I thought the current ruling party were meant to be about efficient outcomes. Most Economists will tell you that as a country we don't need to be so wedded to the idea of a surplus. We just need to be tracking towards it, which we are.

It's not just the money. The Prime Minister is fixated on this and it seems to be dominating a lot of his time with various trips, speeches, consultations, meetings, whatever else. I think that concerns a lot of people. There will always be "other things happening" but particularly now it doesn't seem like a very good time politically.

As for Labour - yep, they have a few whacky ideas. But that's not really painting a full and honest picture. They also have ideas of how to cover their expenses such as raising the retirement age (which needs to be done, no matter what your political affilliation is) and cracking down on tax evasion which costs this country far more than "dole bludgers." They might be a mess but they are proposing a couple of sensible policies which just aren't very sexy issues. They just need a decent leadership team, to inspire confidence in New Zealanders and to get rid of some of their PC social crap policies.

No it's not doom and gloom in New Zealand. There are many things going well, and some we need to get our act together on. Imo the timing politically is not very good for a flag change, the process could have been better, and we are still in the midst of a "tightening of belts" mantra in this country. Bit cheeky to demand we tighten our belt, yet the Government can do whatever it likes. Be curious to know if the Government commissioned a public opinion/polling firm like Crosby and Textor before going ahead with this, because it seems pretty clear what the outcome is going to be.

What I meant by the "tide is turning" is that JK is usually a populist leader. He'll go with public opinion. But increasingly he is refusing to listen. It doesn't seem to matter what the public think, change will happen regardless. And bugger you if you don't like it. From my memory, the Clarke regime started to do the same thing. They began to get silly.
 
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How are we suppise to claim a quarter of your victories if you do this?

On a slightly more serious note all those flags are rubbish the second has the right idea if it didnt look like any of these.

nba-logo.jpg

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pgatour.jpg
 
Embarrassing campaign by John Key in all honesty, he even rung in McCaw and Carter to promote it which just backfired. It's going to cost him a lot of votes in the election, fortunately for him the opposition is pretty weak (Andrew Little/Labour). It's dangerous when a party has easy power because they end up thinking they can do what ever they want, like change the flag!
 

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