Juan Martin Hernandez to the Blues?

[smartcooky]

From http://www.radiosport.co.nz

[textarea]Argentine rugby star Juan Martin Hernandez wants to play Super Rugby next year.

The classy first-five is off contract with his French club Racing Metro in June and French media have linked him with the Blues.

While Hernandez says he's had no contact with the Auckland based franchise, he would welcome a call.

He says the doors are not closed as in the past and it's up to him to make decisions, and hopefully play in New Zealand.

Hernandez says Super Rugby is the best competition in the world and it would help him a lot preparing for the Rugby Championship.

He did sign with the Sharks last year but missed Super Rugby with a knee injury.

Hernandez has been plagued by injury problems over the last few years and missed the World Cup with the knee injury.[/textarea]

I hope he does sign with the Blues. Other news websites are reporting that he is in contract negotiations, but both he and the Blues management deny this.

I would love to see this guy playing in NZ ahead of the Rugby Championship.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

If he plays at 10, the Blues can kiss goodbye to any backline moves. His main tactics are taking the ball on himself and kicking garryowens. He's a much better fullback than flyhalf.

 

[Darwin]

He's been linked with the Blues before, but that rumor came to nothing. I'd personally be surprised if he is in contract negotiations with the Blues, as it would only be for next season, as he doesn't come off contract until June (and the Blues can't actually sign anyone more in any case, unless they are an injury replacement). A lot can happen in a year - there is certainly no guarantees Hernandez will be fit in a years time for one thing!

 

[nickdnz]

Wouldn't mind seeing him in the Hurricanes. He'd certainly help Barrett develop, and we're well short on decent 1st 5/8th. For that matter, he'd be good at fullback with Cory Jane on the right wing and Julian Savea on the left. He seems to be very injury prone though, I'd be annoyed if he came and hurt himself a few games into the season.

 

[Gavin]

This may be the start of an influx of Argentinian players to the Super15.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

His style of play would suit a SA team better but I'm glad he's interested in NZ as we have a couple of young 10's and 15's that could do with the gametime and experience. I can just see Aus teams getting in an Argentine prop and lock or two. Would do wonders for their franchizes but probably not the best call in that it'd thin their options for options for test players.

 

[TNT88]

We could use him. He'd probably suit an SA team more, but they have enough good fly halves

 

[William18]

I can't imagine that Weepu or Matthewson would be that happy if he went to the Blues. I would like to see him in New Zealand and it is good to see him take the Rugby Championship seriously. It would be easy for Argentina to get super rugby teams if they already had a few players playing in the competition.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I can't imagine that Weepu or Matthewson would be that happy if he went to the Blues. I would like to see him in New Zealand and it is good to see him take the Rugby Championship seriously. It would be easy for Argentina to get super rugby teams if they already had a few players playing in the competition.

True but at who's expense? I mean that in SA at least we are very stingy abour giving spots away to foreigners as it takes away opportunity for local talent and there is only 5 franchizes. That's where Europe has the benefit as the between the premiership and top14 there is a hell of a lot of teams to fill. I know people would start grumbling here if a team had more than 1 foreigner or there where foreigners in similar positions in different SA teams.

 

[Melhor Time]

I hope he does sign with the Blues. Other news websites are reporting that he is in contract negotiations, but both he and the Blues management deny this.

I would love to see this guy playing in NZ ahead of the Rugby Championship.

It would be good for him, for the Blues, for Argentina and most of all for New Zealanders to get a better sense of Pumas rugby. Many people don´t know a lot about Argentine rugby as the players are based in Europe and games against the All Blacks have been rare.

Incidently, as Darwin says the Blues have shown interest in him before. The Auckland team was indeed in talks with Hernández in 2009 before he signed for the Sharks in Natal. At the time he commented that a transfer to South Africa was easier than one to New Zealand.

If he plays at 10, the Blues can kiss goodbye to any backline moves. His main tactics are taking the ball on himself and kicking garryowens. He's a much better fullback than flyhalf.

Thats a myth largely constructed by Argentina´s game plan at France 2007. It was so effective that the post 2007 Stade Français coach, Euan MacKenzie used it quite a bit in his years as coach but not all the time. Hernández had a solid time in 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 for Stade Français before departing for the Sharks.

Watch the 2007 Top 14 final. As Simon Mannix says - Hernández almost won it by himself.

His style of play would suit a SA team better but I'm glad he's interested in NZ as we have a couple of young 10's and 15's that could do with the gametime and experience. I can just see Aus teams getting in an Argentine prop and lock or two. Would do wonders for their franchizes but probably not the best call in that it'd thin their options for options for test players.

I don´t agree with this logic and the reason is that if a player is not good enough to play regular for club or franchise he is not what the country needs at test level. Some knowledgeable kiwi´s once told me that Rodrigo Roncero was holding back the growth of the French rugby team because he held down a starting place at Stade Français who were then what Toulouse are now. He was dominant and at the time the best loosehead prop not only in France but anywhere. I didn´t agree with what they had to say and said it was just a case of France not having talent in the position at that point in time. The French scrum was, indeed, being pushed around by many opponents. But today, in 2012, there are more Pumas props in France and a number from South Africa, New Zealand, Samoa, England, Georgia and elsewhere. Despite this, France has a great frontrow and Roncero is still Stade Français´first choice loosehead prop.

Australia has five teams. With four props, as a minimum per team, thats 20 props required. Australia´s World Cup squad did not have four good props. The country right now has two or three but none would make the starting XV of New Zealand, South Africa or Argentina. Obviously, the Australian franchises are not equiped with good players in this area and, as such, should a player like Juan Figallo play for the Western Force or Pablo Henn for the Melbourne Rebels the result would be good for the Australian team in question. With no better local players there is no loss at all. Australia, in my view, probably has about 8 players who could play for the Wallabies as props. Many of them are not great at all but will, nonetheless, be in consideration. Having five or six imports in this position will not hold back Australian rugby at all.

New Zealand has lots of flyhalf options but Hernández at the Blues would not hold back the All Blacks. To the contrary, having him there would be great for everybody. One of the times when Dan Carter looked limited was Stade Français vs Perpignan in January 2009. Neither player got the better of the other. Both ran, attacking the line and feeding the backs. It was a highlight and something that has, to this date, never happened at international level. The Blues and Hurricanes lack decent flyhalf for this season. But, despite this, the All Blacks have depth in the position and no concerns at all.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I think my rate of agreement with Melhor Time's posts is about 50-60%, but on this one I agree 100% with him, I think that this move would be a win-win-win-win situation.

However, Jacky Lorenzetti (Racing-Métro's president and money-man) was asked about the renewals of JMH, Frans Steyn and Chabal, his answer was something like "We agree with Hernandez, we are almost there with Steyn and it's complicated with Chabal" (today on the print version of Midi Olympique, I don't find the interview on their website).

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It would be good for him, for the Blues, for Argentina and most of all for New Zealanders to get a better sense of Pumas rugby. Many people don´t know a lot about Argentine rugby as the players are based in Europe and games against the All Blacks have been rare.

Incidently, as Darwin says the Blues have shown interest in him before. The Auckland team was indeed in talks with Hernández in 2009 before he signed for the Sharks in Natal. At the time he commented that a transfer to South Africa was easier than one to New Zealand.



Thats a myth largely constructed by Argentina´s game plan at France 2007. It was so effective that the post 2007 Stade Français coach, Euan MacKenzie used it quite a bit in his years as coach but not all the time. Hernández had a solid time in 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 for Stade Français before departing for the Sharks.

Watch the 2007 Top 14 final. As Simon Mannix says - Hernández almost won it by himself.



I don´t agree with this logic and the reason is that if a player is not good enough to play regular for club or franchise he is not what the country needs at test level. Some knowledgeable kiwi´s once told me that Rodrigo Roncero was holding back the growth of the French rugby team because he held down a starting place at Stade Français who were then what Toulouse are now. He was dominant and at the time the best loosehead prop not only in France but anywhere. I didn´t agree with what they had to say and said it was just a case of France not having talent in the position at that point in time. The French scrum was, indeed, being pushed around by many opponents. But today, in 2012, there are more Pumas props in France and a number from South Africa, New Zealand, Samoa, England, Georgia and elsewhere. Despite this, France has a great frontrow and Roncero is still Stade Français´first choice loosehead prop.

Australia has five teams. With four props, as a minimum per team, thats 20 props required. Australia´s World Cup squad did not have four good props. The country right now has two or three but none would make the starting XV of New Zealand, South Africa or Argentina. Obviously, the Australian franchises are not equiped with good players in this area and, as such, should a player like Juan Figallo play for the Western Force or Pablo Henn for the Melbourne Rebels the result would be good for the Australian team in question. With no better local players there is no loss at all. Australia, in my view, probably has about 8 players who could play for the Wallabies as props. Many of them are not great at all but will, nonetheless, be in consideration. Having five or six imports in this position will not hold back Australian rugby at all.

New Zealand has lots of flyhalf options but Hernández at the Blues would not hold back the All Blacks. To the contrary, having him there would be great for everybody. One of the times when Dan Carter looked limited was Stade Français vs Perpignan in January 2009. Neither player got the better of the other. Both ran, attacking the line and feeding the backs. It was a highlight and something that has, to this date, never happened at international level. The Blues and Hurricanes lack decent flyhalf for this season. But, despite this, the All Blacks have depth in the position and no concerns at all.

I can't say that I think all your examples are relevant to our (SA) situation
1 France has 14 teams playing in their top league, if even half of those teams had all foreign props and even if they were in a top team it would still mean France would have 2 moer teams than SA with local props; you simply can't compare France to SA with regard the feasibility of having foreign players in your top league.

2 I can't agree here as well; I believe there is a loss; a loss of opportunity for someone who might not be ready to at least gain in invaluable experience. Like I said, with only 5 teams in top flight rugby the jerseys are at a premium and if injury should hit the incumbets you need experienced depth and at the same time you need sopts available to younger player to have the opportunity to gain that valuable experience. In the Southern hemisphere we allready have the problem that we can't compete financially with European clubs and not giving our players gametime would see them take on a lucritive European or Japanese contract just so much sooner.

 

[Melhor Time]

Looks like Racing Métro may well sign Hernández for three more years. http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.com/2012/01/top-14-round-16-wrap.html

Good response Stormer2010.

In theory you are bang on the money. What I´ve noticed is that having so many players is not important. Coaches only really ever have their eyes on 3-4 players per position and so even with only five teams in South Africa (six soon with the Kings) there is room for places to go to Pumas players or other foreigners.

Its something hard to really judge without monitoring. If you write a list of the best four South African based South African players per position to have a potential player squad of 60 for the internationals in 2012 and you monitor them all closely during the Super Rugby season you may notice that despite being a small quantity of players its actually enough for the Boks and, indeed, its mroe than the number of players used per year. I tested this in the 2006-2007 season with France as Rodrigo Roncero, Juan Martín Hernández, Agustín Pichot, Mike James, Sergio Parisse and even Pedro Ledesma were all taking the players of French players in France´s then best team - Stade Français.

I concluded that the players missing out were, in virtually every case, not needed at all. Not for international duty. France had poor props but it was not because three of the four in that seasons final were from Argentina.

I could be wrong or I could be correct. The only way to know is to monitor the players throughout the season. I won´t be watching much Super Rugby as its not on tv where I live. But I do challenge you to come up with a list of 60 SA players (top 4 per position) and then follow them during the season. If you do post it here as I´d be curious to see the list. Maybe it´ll reveal that 3 get injured in one position so its not enough or maybe it´ll reveal that in a number of positions the original top four in one position turned out to be not as good as two others.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

An international squad isn't just made up of 30 adequate players though, it's the 30 top players. Yes there will be enough SA players in the SA squads to make a good squad for one or two seasons, but will there be enough players for a great squad in five seasons?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

[BLINK][/BLINK]

Looks like Racing Métro may well sign Hernández for three more years. http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.com/2012/01/top-14-round-16-wrap.html

Good response Stormer2010.

In theory you are bang on the money. What I´ve noticed is that having so many players is not important. Coaches only really ever have their eyes on 3-4 players per position and so even with only five teams in South Africa (six soon with the Kings) there is room for places to go to Pumas players or other foreigners.

Its something hard to really judge without monitoring. If you write a list of the best four South African based South African players per position to have a potential player squad of 60 for the internationals in 2012 and you monitor them all closely during the Super Rugby season you may notice that despite being a small quantity of players its actually enough for the Boks and, indeed, its mroe than the number of players used per year. I tested this in the 2006-2007 season with France as Rodrigo Roncero, Juan Martín Hernández, Agustín Pichot, Mike James, Sergio Parisse and even Pedro Ledesma were all taking the players of French players in France´s then best team - Stade Français.

I concluded that the players missing out were, in virtually every case, not needed at all. Not for international duty. France had poor props but it was not because three of the four in that seasons final were from Argentina.

I could be wrong or I could be correct. The only way to know is to monitor the players throughout the season. I won´t be watching much Super Rugby as its not on tv where I live. But I do challenge you to come up with a list of 60 SA players (top 4 per position) and then follow them during the season. If you do post it here as I´d be curious to see the list. Maybe it´ll reveal that 3 get injured in one position so its not enough or maybe it´ll reveal that in a number of positions the original top four in one position turned out to be not as good as two others.

Yeah, i agree that you'd only use like possibly 40 to 50 players over a 4 year spread maybe even less if you have most of the spots nailed down and have a few players that cover multiple positions. The only possible problem I see, and like you said it's nothing that one can qualify exactly, is that the players that will replace those players once they move on might have either left for greener pastures or not have the experience in top rugby that they might have had.

It's probably a balance game and I'm glad I'm not the one to do it.

The up-shot of course of having world class foreigners in the teams is that by raising the quality level of the teams in the competition you get better experience out of it for your guys. But still, while I think it works great for countries like England and France with a large number of teams and big budgets, I'd be very very careful to just allow a raft of Argentine players flood in. I think a more tenable solution for everyone would be for actual Argentine teams to join in on the fun as then they get to develop combinations that might work for them at higher levels as well.

 

[Melhor Time]

Sí, la estoy analizando. Como también estoy pensando en las ofertas del Stade Francais y del Racing, que por suerte me está haciendo las cosas fáciles para que, llegado el caso, pueda continuar en el club jugando el Rugby Championship.

This is what Hernández said today in an interview in Buenos Aires.

He has offers from Stade Français, Racing Metro and the Blues. 3

BLues seems likely.

 

[Larksea]

hate to sound selfish bit I don't care for non-kiwi players in NZ teams

we already have a situation where an euro player made the Highlanders squad ahead of a Kiwi (Colin Bourke - touted as a future all black was left in the cold)

I'm not even that hot on Kiwi players moving around franchises. The less local players there are in my local team the less interested I am in the team.

 

[Darwin]

This is what Hernández said today in an interview in Buenos Aires.

He has offers from Stade Français, Racing Metro and the Blues. 3

BLues seems likely.

I honestly think it would be a bit of a gamble for the Blues signing Hernandez. There is no doubt he is a talented player, but how much rugby has he played over the last 4 years? He seems incredibly injury prone, so I just wonder whether he would be worth the risk....

hate to sound selfish bit I don't care for non-kiwi players in NZ teams

we already have a situation where an euro player made the Highlanders squad ahead of a Kiwi (Colin Bourke - touted as a future all black was left in the cold)

I'm not even that hot on Kiwi players moving around franchises. The less local players there are in my local team the less interested I am in the team.

I understand your sentiment, but I don't think it is really correct to suggest that Haskell was selected in the Highlanders ahead of Bourke. I mean Haskell is a loose-forward, while Bourke is a wing/fullback, who just happens to play with an 8 on his back Anyways.... by all accounts Bourke would not have been picked for the Highlanders even if Haskell wasn't picked - Canterbury's Ash Parker was lined up for the squad position before they signed Haskell.

 

[Larksea]

what ever your opinion on Bourke a Kiwi player lost out on a contract to an overseas player, that's what I'm not keen on.

I'd hate to see super teams end up like many euro club sides where local players representing their area are rare.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Agree Larksea.

I think it weakens NZ rugby by bringing in foreigners.

We already support most of the PI players. We can't afford to support other country's players as well.