Is Italy a true Tier 1 Nation?

[lagoerson]

Italy has only 28 all-time wins against Tier 1 Nations, around 10% of every game they played. Despite huge improvement under Qquesada they still struggle against elite: blowouts vs Argentina in Udine (18-50) and France that recently just put 73 on them.

Also in the last 5 years Italy has a 9% of win rate vs Tier 1 while Scotland, Argentina and Wales are in the range of 30-40%.

Do you really consider them a Tier 1 Nation?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Italy has only 28 all-time wins against Tier 1 Nations, around 10% of every game they played. Despite huge improvement under Qquesada they still struggle against elite: blowouts vs Argentina in Udine (18-50) and France that recently just put 73 on them.

Also in the last 5 years Italy has a 9% of win rate vs Tier 1 while Scotland, Argentina and Wales are in the range of 30-40%.

Do you really consider them a Tier 1 Nation?

I think so, i think being Tier 1 means more the results (although they would help), i think its all the infrastructure below that, a professional club comp for example

i mean....someone was always going to be the worst Tier 1 team, i thing i dont have time to check is whats their record against tier 2 teams?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think they are tier 1.5. They've won the majority of their games Vs tier 2 opposition but their record of losses Vs tier 1 nations is worse than their record of wins Vs tier 2.

Ie they are more likely to lose to a tier 2 side than win against a tier 1 side. Having said that, I think they have improved recently.

 

[lagoerson]

I think so, i think being Tier 1 means more the results (although they would help), i think its all the infrastructure below that, a professional club comp for example

i mean....someone was always going to be the worst Tier 1 team, i thing i dont have time to check is whats their record against tier 2 teams?

Well they have more losses than anyone against tier 2 sides for sure: 47 is a ******* lot. i think argentina has only 8 or something.

 

[lagoerson]

I think they are tier 1.5. They've won the majority of their games Vs tier 2 opposition but their record of losses Vs tier 1 nations is worse than their record of wins Vs tier 2.

Ie they are more likely to lose to a tier 2 side than win against a tier 1 side. Having said that, I think they have improved recently.

I acknowledge their improvement but they have 47 losses vs tier 2 while only 28 wins vs tier 1

Argentina 82 wins vs tier 1 vs only 9 losses to tier 2.

Silly to compare home nations (scotland, wales should have a similar record without the centennial competition).

But still, only Italy is WAY behind.

 

[Which Tyler]

Yes.
Because they play in an annual, tier one, international competition.

But they haven't always been tier 1, so their record from before 2000 is even more irrelevant than their record since.

They're the worst tier 1 side, but that doesn't make them "not tier 1"

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yes.
Because they play in an annual, tier one, international competition.

But they haven't always been tier 1, so their record from before 2000 is even more irrelevant than their record since.

They're the worst tier 1 side, but that doesn't make them "not tier 1"

Nail on head.

It'd br great to see them knock England over soon (if you're not an England fan obv), it's the biggest blotch on their record. They haven't beaten NZ but neither have Scotland or Wales (in the pro era) so that's not as big a black mark imo.

They also have a pro club who qualified for the European knockouts in a group where the current top English side failed to make it out of and both their clubs are in the scramble for URC knockouts. Rugby is niche but healthy in Italy.

 

[lagoerson]

Nail on head.

It'd br great to see them knock England over soon (if you're not an England fan obv), it's the biggest blotch on their record. They haven't beaten NZ but neither have Scotland or Wales (in the pro era) so that's not as big a black mark imo.

They also have a pro club who qualified for the European knockouts in a group where the current top English side failed to make it out of and both their clubs are in the scramble for URC knockouts. Rugby is niche but healthy in Italy.

I agree. Main problem of Italian rugby is the lack of a big Pool of talent. Still 77,000 registered players aint that far from Australia.