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<blockquote data-quote="Prestwick" data-source="post: 601013" data-attributes="member: 13794">I think someone needs to calm down. I didn&#039;t say that Italy haven&#039;t progressed, I said they&#039;ve progressed via pushing quality players into the Premiership and the Top 14. Before the Italian entry into the Pro 12 the Italian sides simply weren&#039;t good enough and had few Italian stars as they&#039;d usually follow their friends into England or France. Thus, the effect of the Heineken Cup on Italian rugby via its own clubs like Treviso and others has been negligible at best whilst the effect of the Heineken Cup on Italian rugby via its stars playing for Stade Francais, Saracens, Leicester, etc has been transformative to say the least. TL;DR version: Italy&#039;s elite players got better playing for epic teams and not by playing for the Italian whipping boys of yesteryear. You&#039;re gonna learn a lot more from winning with a well drilled and highly talented team than from a 40-3 drubbing with Viadana.What you&#039;ve covered there only confirms what I&#039;ve already said: that Italian rugby was strong and is getting stronger with or without European rugby because, like the majority of the Italian squad on that glorious day in 2011, many of Italy&#039;s elite rugby squad either play for currently - or have played for in the past for a substantial period - English and French cups. It also confirms that Italian rugby won&#039;t collapse as a result of Zebre being denied automatic qualification to the Heineken Cup. Remember, by the looks of it there doesn&#039;t appear to be anything stopping Zebre from playing very well in the Pro12 and getting into the top seven with Trevisio to qualify or playing very well in the successor to the Amlin Cup, winning that and gaining qualification via that. Why are you so afraid of two Italian sides playing consistently well? You&#039;re not a Munster fan in disguise...are you?Italy losing an automatic qualifying place in the Pro 12 won&#039;t be the end of the world. Get over it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Prestwick, post: 601013, member: 13794"] I think someone needs to calm down. I didn't say that Italy haven't progressed, I said they've progressed via pushing quality players into the Premiership and the Top 14. Before the Italian entry into the Pro 12 the Italian sides simply weren't good enough and had few Italian stars as they'd usually follow their friends into England or France. Thus, the effect of the Heineken Cup on Italian rugby [I]via its own clubs like Treviso and others[/I] has been negligible at best whilst the effect of the Heineken Cup on Italian rugby via its stars playing for Stade Francais, Saracens, Leicester, etc has been transformative to say the least. TL;DR version: Italy's elite players got better playing for epic teams and not by playing for the Italian whipping boys of yesteryear. You're gonna learn a lot more from winning with a well drilled and highly talented team than from a 40-3 drubbing with Viadana. What you've covered there only confirms what I've already said: that Italian rugby was strong and is getting stronger with or without European rugby because, like the majority of the Italian squad on that glorious day in 2011, many of Italy's elite rugby squad either play for currently - or have played for in the past for a substantial period - English and French cups. It also confirms that [B]Italian rugby won't collapse as a result of Zebre being denied [I]automatic qualification[/I] to the Heineken Cup[/B]. Remember, by the looks of it there doesn't appear to be anything stopping Zebre from playing very well in the Pro12 and getting into the top seven with Trevisio to qualify or playing very well in the successor to the Amlin Cup, winning that and gaining qualification via that. Why are you so afraid of two Italian sides playing consistently well? You're not a Munster fan in disguise...are you? Italy losing an automatic qualifying place in the Pro 12 won't be the end of the world. Get over it. [/QUOTE]

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