Guinness Pro14 - Round 9 two tribes go to war

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Round 9


Thursday, December 26


Cardiff Blues v Dragons – KO 15.00

Cardiff Arms Park, Cardiff

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 181st Championship Appearance)

AR1: Ben Whitehouse (WRU), AR2: Adam Jones (WRU),

TMO: Sean Brickell (WRU)

Live on eir Sport 1, Premier Sports 2, SuperSport 1, S4C, DAZN, pro14.tv



Scarlets v Ospreys – KO 17.15

Parc y Scarlets, Llanelli

Referee: Craig Evans (WRU, 9th Championship Appearance)

AR1: Dan Jones (WRU), AR2: Wayne Davies (WRU)

TMO: Jon Mason (WRU)

Live on eir Sport 1, Premier Sports 2, SuperSport 1, DAZN, pro14.tv

Deferred: Friday 17:00 S4C

Friday, December 27


Ulster v Connacht – KO 19.35

Kingspan Stadium, Belfast

Referee: Sean Gallagher (IRFU, 18th Championship Appearance)

AR1: Andrew Brace (IRFU), AR2: Nigel Correll (IRFU)

TMO: Leo Colgan (IRFU)

Live on eir Sport 1, Premier Sports 2, SuperSport 1, DAZN, pro14.tv



Saturday, December 28


Benetton v Zebre – KO 13.00 (UK) / 14:00 (ITA)

Stadio Monigo, Treviso

Referee: Andrea Piardi (FIR, 5th Championship Appearance)

AR1: Marius Mitrea (FIR) AR2: Manuel Bottino (FIR)

TMO: Alan Falzone (FIR)

Live on eir Sport 1, FreeSports, DAZN, pro14.tv



Edinburgh v Glasgow – KO 15.00

BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: Mike Adamson (SRU, 40th Championship Appearance)

AR1: Keith Allen (SRU), AR2: David Sutherland (SRU)

TMO: Neil Patterson (SRU)

Live on eir Sport 1, Premier Sports 2, DAZN, pro14.tv



Munster v Leinster – KO 18.00

Thomond Park, Limerick

Referee: Frank Murphy (IRFU, 29th Championship Appearance)

AR1: George Clancy (IRFU) AR2: Chris Busby (IRFU)

TMO: Olly Hodges (IRFU)

Live on eir Sport 1, Premier Sports 2, SuperSport 1, DAZN, pro14.tv

 

[Leinster Fan]

Frank Murphy again makes a mockery of the league. I'm sure he'll ref it in an unbiased way to the best of his ability but is a ref who didn't play for one of the teams really too much to ask for? And we wonder why the English don't take us seriously. Nigel has gone off the boil in recent years but would this not be a better use of his time than Cardiff v Dragons? Why can't have the Welsh refs ref the Irish derbies and vice versa?

As for the game itself, without almost all of the World Cup it won't be the event it sometimes is but still a big deal. Probably see something like this from Leinster: Ed Byrne, Tracy, Bent, Toner, Fardy, Murphy, Connors, Doris, JGP, Ross Byrne (maybe), Lowe, Conor O'Brien, O'Loughlin (if he's fit), Dave, Keenan. My optimistic prediction is Leinster by about 5 or 6 but we'll what the teams are like before anything definite.

 

[Al Bangor]

I hope the Edinburgh vs Glasgow rematch is more exciting than the first game. It had a nice ending if you're a Glasgow fan, but the first 64 minutes were a snooze.

We Are Warriors!

 

[munstermuffin]

Frank Murphy again makes a mockery of the league. I'm sure he'll ref it in an unbiased way to the best of his ability but is a ref who didn't play for one of the teams really too much to ask for? And we wonder why the English don't take us seriously. Nigel has gone off the boil in recent years but would this not be a better use of his time than Cardiff v Dragons? Why can't have the Welsh refs ref the Irish derbies and vice versa?

As for the game itself, without almost all of the World Cup it won't be the event it sometimes is but still a big deal. Probably see something like this from Leinster: Ed Byrne, Tracy, Bent, Toner, Fardy, Murphy, Connors, Doris, JGP, Ross Byrne (maybe), Lowe, Conor O'Brien, O'Loughlin (if he's fit), Dave, Keenan. My optimistic prediction is Leinster by about 5 or 6 but we'll what the teams are like before anything definite.

It's funny how this was never an issue for Leinster fans when Rolland reffed. Frank is long gone from links with Munster and played very little for Munster. And the ref was never issue despite all protests about Rolland or Murphy or whoever. Jp Doyle has done Leinster games also and never been an issue. And reason for likes of Nigel not doing it was well documented when he did game before and had to spend Christmas in Ireland. The refs are paid very little and most have a career outside rugby still and travel issues mean being away from their families. And I presume the same goes for Irish guys to Wales.
Andrew Brace is the only ref who may have been able to fulfill this as his family are Cardiff based.

On game it's effectively an A game with international camp this week and enforcee rest of lads away. We will have Joey back provided he survives Thursday but Connacht game was big plus to ease pressure and the key is to build right for Paris as next 2 games are aimed at that

 

[Leinster Fan]

It's funny how this was never an issue for Leinster fans when Rolland reffed. Frank is long gone from links with Munster and played very little for Munster. And the ref was never issue despite all protests about Rolland or Murphy or whoever. Jp Doyle has done Leinster games also and never been an issue. And reason for likes of Nigel not doing it was well documented when he did game before and had to spend Christmas in Ireland. The refs are paid very little and most have a career outside rugby still and travel issues mean being away from their families. And I presume the same goes for Irish guys to Wales.
Andrew Brace is the only ref who may have been able to fulfill this as his family are Cardiff based.

On game it's effectively an A game with international camp this week and enforcee rest of lads away. We will have Joey back provided he survives Thursday but Connacht game was big plus to ease pressure and the key is to build right for Paris as next 2 games are aimed at that

It was wrong when Rolland did it as well. Two wrongs don't make a right. Fair enough about the Welsh/Irish thing but an organisation with the rescourses of the IRFU should be able to find a ref who hasn't played for one of the teams he's reffing. Regardless of what happens it puts him in a unfair position and seriously damages the credibility of the league. Whataboutism about a game years ago where the designated ref pulled out due to injury at late notice doesn't change that.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

On game it's effectively an A game

I know it's a bit of a meme to rag on the pro14 but that's proper shitty considering the Munster/Leinster derbies are comfortably the biggest games in the league if not the whole club game

 

[munstermuffin]

I know it's a bit of a meme to rag on the pro14 but that's proper shitty considering the Munster/Leinster derbies are comfortably the biggest games in the league if not the whole club game

Yes but given fact it a 13 month season both teams are being forced to rest majority of their front line guys. I'm with Munster many many years and can easily say this is the least hyped Christmas Derby in years. It's a sell out but more on back of family day out and sessions. Even if we win it is missing a bit of gloss. I do agree with IRFU too as bigger games are to come

 

[munstermuffin]

It was wrong when Rolland did it as well. Two wrongs don't make a right. Fair enough about the Welsh/Irish thing but an organisation with the rescourses of the IRFU should be able to find a ref who hasn't played for one of the teams he's reffing. Regardless of what happens it puts him in a unfair position and seriously damages the credibility of the league. Whataboutism about a game years ago where the designated ref pulled out due to injury at late notice doesn't change that.

But years ago it wasn't just an injury either. Not all the time. Also I agree on resources but based on league majority come from Munster or Leinster. Murphy is Connacht. Yes played with us but is no way affiliated. In England and France it's not an issue as it is all the 1 country in both terms. We are the only leage that brings nationality in to debate

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yes but given fact it a 13 month season both teams are being forced to rest majority of their front line guys. I'm with Munster many many years and can easily say this is the least hyped Christmas Derby in years. It's a sell out but more on back of family day out and sessions. Even if we win it is missing a bit of gloss. I do agree with IRFU too as bigger games are to come

So you rest them for the **** games no one cares about, surely?
To have games against the south African and Italian sides but then rest during the Derby is just disrespectful to the fans

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

The main problem is there are too many games every season. You could easily cut 6 games from the calendar and have every remaining game mean more. More games with front line players means more sell outs and each game is an event. The Welsh regions could add another Judgement day round in the Principality Stadium, filling The Liberty Stadium or Cardiff City Stadium, the Scots could experiment with taking games to Celtic Park, Ibrox or Hampden Park, Leinster could look to play another game in the Aviva Stadium, Munster in Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Ulster in Casement Park (if it ever gets off the ground) and Connacht in Pearse Stadium.

It's a bit shitty that both Munster and Leinster will play with weakened teams. Having said that, it's a chance for players to make a name and impress. Two seasons ago Leinster were pilloried for picking a below full strength team in the same fixture. That team featured Jordan Larmour, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe, Jamison Gibson Park, Jack McGrath, Devin Toner, James Ryan, Jordi Murphy, Dan Leavy and Jack Conan with Tadhg Furlong, Richardt Strauss and Josh van der Flier coming off the bench. We'll still see two strong teams take the field on Saturday.

 

[munstermuffin]

So you rest them for the **** games no one cares about, surely?
To have games against the south African and Italian sides but then rest during the Derby is just disrespectful to the fans

Unfortunately it's the way the window went. 2 European games then rest then 2 European games then 3 Irish derbies then 2 European games. Hard to get lads going for majority of them

 

[munstermuffin]

The main problem is there are too many games every season. You could easily cut 6 games from the calendar and have every remaining game mean more. More games with front line players means more sell outs and each game is an event. The Welsh regions could add another Judgement day round in the Principality Stadium, filling The Liberty Stadium or Cardiff City Stadium, the Scots could experiment with taking games to Celtic Park, Ibrox or Hampden Park, Leinster could look to play another game in the Aviva Stadium, Munster in Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Ulster in Casement Park (if it ever gets off the ground) and Connacht in Pearse Stadium.

It's a bit shitty that both Munster and Leinster will play with weakened teams. Having said that, it's a chance for players to make a name and impress. Two seasons ago Leinster were pilloried for picking a below full strength team in the same fixture. That team featured Jordan Larmour, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe, Jamison Gibson Park, Jack McGrath, Devin Toner, James Ryan, Jordi Murphy, Dan Leavy and Jack Conan with Tadhg Furlong, Richardt Strauss and Josh van der Flier coming off the bench. We'll still see two strong teams take the field on Saturday.

Agreed it's huge chance for fringe guys. But unlike that day the majority of international guys are on 2 week breaks so unlikely anyone except Rob K, Joey and Kilcoyne who were in Japan will be in the team. But agreed it will still have decent players who fancy making 6Nations.

To say a few for us Loughman, Jacko, Tommy, Casey, JJ/Joey, Scannell R, and back 3 lads for Leinster the backrow guys, JGP, Back 3 lads, Harry Byrne and Ross Byrne.

It won't be a crappy standard and well it can be argued for both teams the lads who returned from RWC have been lowering it compared to these guys

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Given the physicality of the sport, the length of the season is the reason for all this rotation. In Major League Baseball, each team has 3-5 starting pitchers in a rotation because they can't physically compete in such a long season (the Washington Nationals played 179 games between the regular and post season, the Houston Astros played 180 games!). If we want the rugby season to be so long, we have to accept that teams will rotate wildly in the hope of being healthy enough for league and European playoffs. Leinster have already used 50 players this season to cope with the demands of the campaign.

 

[Bluemoon]

A dour game at the Arms Park, with the Dragons forwards having the upper hand whilst the Cardiff Blues backs being light years ahead in terms of attack and defence. Worrying injury to Jarrod Evans, hoping he'll be fit for next week.

I will say that Dean Ryan has had a very positive impact on that dragons team, who now have a lot more organisation, play well to their strengths and use their pack at the right times. If they improve their back line they'll be much more competitive.

 

[munstermuffin]

Munster: Mike Haley; Dan Goggin, Sammy Arnold, Rory Scannell, Shane Daly; JJ Hanrahan, Nick McCarthy; Dave Kilcoyne, Kevin O'Byrne, Stephen Archer; Fineen Wycherley, Billy Holland (C); Tommy O'Donnell, Chris Cloete, Jack O'Donoghue.

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Jeremy Loughman, Keynan Knox, Darren O'Shea, Jack O'Sullivan, Neil Cronin, Joey Carbery, Calvin Nash.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):

15. Hugo Keenan (11)
14. Adam Byrne (56)
13. Jimmy O'Brien (13)
12. Conor O'Brien (21)
11. James Lowe (38)
10. Ross Byrne (81)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (82)
1. Ed Byrne (50)
2. James Tracy (103)
3. Andrew Porter (59)
4. Devin Toner (241)
5. Scott Fardy (53) CAPTAIN
6. Josh Murphy (29)
7. Will Connors (11)
8. Caelan Doris (25)

16. Seán Cronin (174)
17. Peter Dooley (69)
18. Jack Aungier (2)
19. Ross Molony (89)
20. Scott Penny (10)
21. Rowan Osborne (2)
22. Ciarán Frawley (18)
23. Tommy O'Brien (1)

 

[Leinster Fan]

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):

15. Hugo Keenan (11)
14. Adam Byrne (56)
13. Jimmy O'Brien (13)
12. Conor O'Brien (21)
11. James Lowe (38)
10. Ross Byrne (81)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (82)
1. Ed Byrne (50)
2. James Tracy (103)
3. Andrew Porter (59)
4. Devin Toner (241)
5. Scott Fardy (53) CAPTAIN
6. Josh Murphy (29)
7. Will Connors (11)
8. Caelan Doris (25)

16. Seán Cronin (174)
17. Peter Dooley (69)
18. Jack Aungier (2)
19. Ross Molony (89)
20. Scott Penny (10)
21. Rowan Osborne (2)
22. Ciarán Frawley (18)
23. Tommy O'Brien (1)

Think we should edge this but hard to know. I'd say our pack is a decent bit better, Porter in makes it far stronger and would only take two Munster forwards (Kilcoyne and O'Donnell) over their opposite numbers and one is coming off an injury and the other is out of position. Tommy O'Brien on the bench is great ti see as well, if he gets an injury free run he'll rise through the ranks very quickly. Nice to see both teams go as strong as possible under the circumstances. Think Lowe will get joy against Goggin but we'll see.

 

[Groundhog]

Sad about the selections, this is or should be one of the bigger fixtures in our league and an advertisement for an often scoffed at competition. That said I understand why the IRFU can't view it that way, players need rest and the interpro to target is the one pre-Europe.
On the teams picked to play, ours is not bad for a second team but a few strange ones. Odd that Goggin is picked out wide. My guess is he's been picked because he's a physical player and might be better suited to contain Lowe's power than a Nash for instance. Conversely he missed a few tackles against Ulster and if his positioning is poor it won't matter how strong he is. I'd rather him at 13 and a wing.... At wing, even if the two young wings underwhelmed last week. Our pack's not bad, but on paper you'd expect that Leinster second row to have a good day against a reasonably young guy who hasn't broken through to first team and a one cap club player. I'm being a bit facetious of course as you'd expect both men to rise to the occasion and both have appeared in bigger games than this. A second row of Toner and Fardy is, however, as tough as it gets for a pairing without... Oh yeah James Ryan.
I actually think we have quality on the bench though, especially front row, so shouldn't drift out of the game like we have in the past against Leinster.
Home advantage, I think we might, or should edge it. They're two strong teams despite the circumstances and hopefully they'll make a mark.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

This should be a cracker, the front line players would be nice but we had em last year and they played out an absolute stinker. Keep 15 on the pitch and I give us a chance here, I really like our back three and think Keenan is a few strong games away from breathing down RK's neck. Porter, Fardy and Toner could really give us the edge we need.

That said, totally restricting our centre positions to men named O'Brien and potentially a ginger is a risky strategy that you'd imagine Munster will be trying to exploit.

 

[Groundhog]

Two nautical miles forward from Addison. Ballymun is rapid though.