Guinness Pro 12 2014/15: Round 20

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Round 20 Fixtures

24 April 2015, 19:35
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh, Scotland
Referee: N/A
TV: BBC ALBA/Nuvolri

24 April 2015, 19:35
Kingspan Stadium, Belfast, Northern Ireland
Referee: N/A
TV: BBCNI/Sky

25 April 2015, 13:05
Galway Sportsgrounds, Galway, Republic of Ireland
Referee: N/A
TV: TG4/BBC ALBA

25 April 2015, 15:05
Musgrave Park, Cork, Republic of Ireland
Referee: N/A
TV: TG4/Nuvolari

25 April 2015, 14:30
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, Wales
Referee: N/A
TV: BBCW

25 April 2015, 16:45
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, Wales
Referee: N/A
TV: S4C
​

 

[Peat]

Ulster team & replacements to play Leinster, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 24th April (19:35 kick off):
(15-9): L Ludik; T Bowe, J Payne, D Cave, C Gilroy; P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): C Black, R Best (C), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, I Henderson, C Henry, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, B Ross, R Diack, C Ross, P Marshall, I Humphreys, S McCloskey

15.Rob Kearney
14. Zane Kirchner
13. Ben Te'o
12. Gordon D'Arcy
11. Luke Fitzgerald
10. Jimmy Gopperth
9. Isaac Boss
1. Cian Healy
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Sean O'Brien
7. Dominic Ryan
8. Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

16. Sean Cronin
17. Jack McGrath
18. Tadhg Furlong
19. Ben Marshall
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Ian Madigan
23. Darragh Fanning

 

[lynam1104]

Ulster to blow out the solitary candle that some think is Leinster's chance.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ulster easy here. In Ravenhill, that Leinster team are battered and well he's taken the wrong players out in my eyes. Madigan needed to start to let him get over last Sunday fast. Ross and Boss both needed to be replaced to freshen things up and Jordi Murphy should've been retained as he is fresh enough and playing well. 2nd row again worries me for Leinster too. McCarthy will be battered as will Toner and well Marshall is very inexperienced.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Dropping Madigan is making the same knee-jerk decision twice in 5 days, it backfired when Gopperth couldn't kick a relatively easy conversion against Toulon to get Leinster within three and it'll probably backfire again here simply because the back line isn't as good without Madigan, not that it matters with this being a glorified friendly for Leinster. If I was Madigan I'd be getting the **** out of Leinster while MO'C's about. Munster could make good use of a 12 like him...

 

[munstermuffin]

Dropping Madigan is making the same knee-jerk decision twice in 5 days, it backfired when Gopperth couldn't kick a relatively easy conversion against Toulon to get Leinster within three and it'll probably backfire again here simply because the back line isn't as good without Madigan, not that it matters with this being a glorified friendly for Leinster. If I was Madigan I'd be getting the **** out of Leinster while MO'C's about. Munster could make good use of a 12 like him...

He'd be more than welcome here. And being fair he'd have better shot of becoming that top 10. But agree in that I'd be more of the book of throwing Madigan back to the sharks and let him get over last Sundays horror show ASAP. Not let him dwell on it.

 

[big ginger 8]

Ulster easy here. In Ravenhill, that Leinster team are battered and well he's taken the wrong players out in my eyes. Madigan needed to start to let him get over last Sunday fast. Ross and Boss both needed to be replaced to freshen things up and Jordi Murphy should've been retained as he is fresh enough and playing well. 2nd row again worries me for Leinster too. McCarthy will be battered as will Toner and well Marshall is very inexperienced.

This is a must win game. Not one to be used to give a player their confidence back. MO'C has defended Madigan in the press but he's right not to start him here. I'd say Moore would have started this but his shoulder surgery put an end to that and Furlong isn't ready. Reddan's form is also not great and Boss is the better choice for a tight away game. Agree about Murphy. McCarthy and Toner is our only option for the secondrow really with Douglas out. Overall, it's the right selection with little or no choice in most situations.

 

[munstermuffin]

This is a must win game. Not one to be used to give a player their confidence back. MO'C has defended Madigan in the press but he's right not to start him here. I'd say Moore would have started this but his shoulder surgery put an end to that and Furlong isn't ready. Reddan's form is also not great and Boss is the better choice for a tight away game. Agree about Murphy. McCarthy and Toner is our only option for the secondrow really with Douglas out. Overall, it's the right selection with little or no choice in most situations.

As I said I'm not slating MOC as such but more think he's freshened wrong areas. Can accept Ross bit. I thought Boss was superb last week but at 35 surely he will still be jaded. 2nd row I know it's all ye have left. Madigan had a stinker last week but that's why I'd let him play as I think you'd get more from him (albeit it's a gamble either way). It's a game Leinster must win so they have to try think adventurous.

 

[big ginger 8]

As I said I'm not slating MOC as such but more think he's freshened wrong areas. Can accept Ross bit. I thought Boss was superb last week but at 35 surely he will still be jaded. 2nd row I know it's all ye have left. Madigan had a stinker last week but that's why I'd let him play as I think you'd get more from him (albeit it's a gamble either way). It's a game Leinster must win so they have to try think adventurous.

Playing D'arcy ahead of Madigan probably is more adventurous. We're sacrificsing our best goal kicker our best kicker to get more out of our backs. To be honest if it was anyone but Madigan we wouldn't be getting this reaction from people of 'give him a chance to get his confidence back'. If it was someone like Boss or Gopperth people would be calling for them to be dropped and rightly so. He played badly and we have someone who can likely improve upon his performance so he's dropped for this vital game, it's the right call.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Playing D'arcy ahead of Madigan probably is more adventurous. We're sacrificsing our best goal kicker our best kicker to get more out of our backs. To be honest if it was anyone but Madigan we wouldn't be getting this reaction from people of 'give him a chance to get his confidence back'. If it was someone like Boss or Gopperth people would be calling for them to be dropped and rightly so. He played badly and we have someone who can likely improve upon his performance so he's dropped for this vital game, it's the right call.

Gopperth was equally **** last week and he can't place kick, pick Madigan because it's not a must win game, we get max points and we're still out, and Mads is around next year, no brainer.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

The Squads for Edinburgh vs Zebre has been announced

Edinburgh: Tom Brown, Dougie Fife, Sam Beard, Andries Strauss, Tim Visser, Phil Burleigh, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne; Alasdair Dickinson, Ross Ford, WP Nel, Anton Bresler, Ben Toolis, Stuart McInally, Roddy Grant, Mike Coman (capt).
Replacements: Neil Cochrane, Rory Sutherland, John Andress, Fraser McKenzie, Cornell Du Preez, Nathan Fowles, Tom Heathcote, Carl Bezuidenhout


Zebre: Hendrik Daniller, Giulio Toniolatti, Mirco Bergamasco, Gonzalo Garcia, David Odiete, Luciano Orquera, Guglielmo Palazzani; Samuela Vunisa, Andries Van Schalkwyk, Filippo Cristiano, Marco Bortolami (capt), Valerio Bernabò, Dario Chistolini, Andrea Manici, Matias Aguero.
Replacements: Oliviero Fabiani, Andrea Lovotti, Luca Redolfini, Andrei Mahu, Filippo Ferrarini, Alberto Chillon, Matteo Pratichetti, Brendon Leonard.

 

[big ginger 8]

Gopperth was equally **** last week and he can't place kick, pick Madigan because it's not a must win game, we get max points and we're still out, and Mads is around next year, no brainer.

No we're not still out and it is a must win game if we want to have any chance of being in the playoffs, which we should. If MO'C had played picked a young team saying he was giving up on the playoffs and building for next season you'd be giving out about that instead.

Saying Gopperth can't place kick is ridiculous. He's not as good as Madigan but he's a mid 70's kicker which is a far cry from not being able to place kick. I've no idea how you can think Gopperth was as bad as Madigan last week or that picking him this week is a 'no brainer'. There are some very valid reasons not to pick even if you don't want to listen to them.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

No we're not still out and it is a must win game if we want to have any chance of being in the playoffs, which we should. If MO'C had played picked a young team saying he was giving up on the playoffs and building for next season you'd be giving out about that instead.

Saying Gopperth can't place kick is ridiculous. He's not as good as Madigan but he's a mid 70's kicker which is a far cry from not being able to place kick. I've no idea how you can think Gopperth was as bad as Madigan last week or that picking him this week is a 'no brainer'. There are some very valid reasons not to pick even if you don't want to listen to them.

If 63 points gets a team into the Ill change my avatar to me sucking MO'C's 9'' dick and promptly get banned. Mads threw an intercept last week and was very poor, if Gopperth hadn't slipped and dropped the ball so much no one would know he was even in France.

Why pick a mid 70's kicker when you have a better one who at worst is an equal player.

There are very valid reasons not to pick Gopperth, more than not to pick Mads and it's been that way for two years. I won't be sad to see the back of Gopperth but I feel bad for him, his rep is tainted among Leinster fans because he was given a role that he was not capable of and the man outside him would do a better job at it. One of MO'C's countless mistakes as Leinster coach.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

The squads for the Cardiff blues vs Ospreys squad has been announced.

Cardiff Blues: Rhys Patchell; Lucas Amorosino, Tom Isaacs, Garyn Smith, Joaquin Tuculet, Gareth Anscombe, Lloyd Williams; Gethin Jenkins (capt), Kristian Dacey, Craig Mitchell, Chris Dicomidis, Filo Paulo, Josh Turnbull, Sam Warburton, Josh Navidi.

Replacements: Matthew Rees, Sam Hobbs, Scott Andrews, Jarrad Hoeata, Macauley Cook, Lewis Jones, Gareth Davies, Dan Fish.


Ospreys: Dan Evans; Tom Grabham, Ben John, Josh Matavesi, Eli Walker; Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb; Nicky Smith, Scott Baldwin, Aaron Jarvis, Lloyd Peers, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Dan Lydiate, Justin Tipuric, Dan Baker.

Replacements: Sam Parry, Marc Thomas, Dmitri Arhip, Tyler Ardron, James King, Tom Habberfield, Sam Davies, Jonathan Spratt.

 

[big ginger 8]

If 63 points gets a team into the Ill change my avatar to me sucking MO'C's 9'' dick and promptly get banned. Mads threw an intercept last week and was very poor, if Gopperth hadn't slipped and dropped the ball so much no one would know he was even in France.

Why pick a mid 70's kicker when you have a better one who at worst is an equal player.

There are very valid reasons not to pick Gopperth, more than not to pick Mads and it's been that way for two years. I won't be sad to see the back of Gopperth but I feel bad for him, his rep is tainted among Leinster fans because he was given a role that he was not capable of and the man outside him would do a better job at it. One of MO'C's countless mistakes as Leinster coach.

It's not the most likely scenario but it is possible. I don't know how you ended up with 63 points either? Winning our last three would give us 65. After Ulster we have Treviso at home and Edignburgh away so at least one TBP is a possibility. Ulster meanwhile have Munster and Glasgow so could conceviably lose their last three. It's a very slim chance but we've got to go for it for this match at least and you know it.

I don't know why I bothered engaging you about Madigan when you feel the sameway about him as a Corkman does about Zebo so nothing I say will change your stance.

 

[munstermuffin]

It's not the most likely scenario but it is possible. I don't know how you ended up with 63 points either? Winning our last three would give us 65. After Ulster we have Treviso at home and Edignburgh away so at least one TBP is a possibility. Ulster meanwhile have Munster and Glasgow so could conceviably lose their last three. It's a very slim chance but we've got to go for it for this match at least and you know it.

I don't know why I bothered engaging you about Madigan when you feel the sameway about him as a Corkman does about Zebo so nothing I say will change your stance.

The key there is timing BG8. For us we have Dragons in last game. And if it's a case of we need 5 points from last 2 games I wonder would we try and chance it as going for 5 at home in last game and hope for loosing BP up in Ravenhill to get a home SF. My presumption is we want 10 from last 3 minimum. All in all Ulster are good but will be incredibly tested with a final 3 of Leinster Munster and Glasgow. That's 3 games they can win but loose just as easy.
1 thing for sure it's great finish to season. I heard on radio every team except Cardiff is still actually playing for something. its like a group of mini tables within the table.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's not the most likely scenario but it is possible. I don't know how you ended up with 63 points either? Winning our last three would give us 65. After Ulster we have Treviso at home and Edignburgh away so at least one TBP is a possibility. Ulster meanwhile have Munster and Glasgow so could conceviably lose their last three. It's a very slim chance but we've got to go for it for this match at least and you know it.

I don't know why I bothered engaging you about Madigan when you feel the sameway about him as a Corkman does about Zebo so nothing I say will change your stance.

Sorry I though there was only two games left in the season. Still doesn't change my point that Mads should start.

Madigan isnt a great 10, Gopperth used to be good but now he's horribly out of form and doesn't bring anything to the game that Mads can't. Add the fact that Mads is a far superior kicker, both tactical and from a places ball, and that he'll be here next season and it's a no brainer. It doesn't really matter that Gopperth is marginally better than Mads at running a back line because of the 9 man muck that has been played recently.

 

[Peat]

I have to say, I am happier seeing Leinster's best place kicker on the bench than on the pitch.

That said, if Ulster lose it, it'll be up front. Our scrum has been strong but has shaken a few times, Leinster have a strong front row there, and an attack of the Rory yips would be fatal - hopefully FvdM will look at our options and theirs and come up with a plan of "ABT" (Anywhere But Toner). I don't really care for an in-form O'Brien either, particularly when Ulster are often a little too slow in support of the ball carrier. I think Ulster should win but am mildly nervy about that.

Then again... pack dominance usually desires the best place kicker, or its benefits can go missing.

 

[big ginger 8]

Sorry I though there was only two games left in the season. Still doesn't change my point that Mads should start.

Madigan isnt a great 10, Gopperth used to be good but now he's horribly out of form and doesn't bring anything to the game that Mads can't. Add the fact that Mads is a far superior kicker, both tactical and from a places ball, and that he'll be here next season and it's a no brainer. It doesn't really matter that Gopperth is marginally better than Mads at running a back line because of the 9 man muck that has been played recently.

Madigan's tactical kicking is very far from superior. They're both crap at it. Madigan's tactical kicking is consistently one of his biggest flaws. It's also a lot more than marginally better at running a backline as well. Madigan just doesn't or can't do it. Also yes we have been playing '9 man muck' recently, if you discount going further back than last week...where that tactic was actually relatively successful and suited to the conditions.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Madigan's tactical kicking is very far from superior. They're both crap at it. Madigan's tactical kicking is consistently one of his biggest flaws. It's also a lot more than marginally better at running a backline as well. Madigan just doesn't or can't do it. Also yes we have been playing '9 man muck' recently, if you discount going further back than last week...where that tactic was actually relatively successful and suited to the conditions.

It's one of his flaws, still better than Gopps though...
Completely marginal, Gopps can't either, he runs into dead ends as much as Mads and his passing is shoddy. Better vision, worse execution.
Big "season defining" game = 9 man muck it's happened thrice in 2015.

- - - Updated - - -

Madigan's tactical kicking is very far from superior. They're both crap at it. Madigan's tactical kicking is consistently one of his biggest flaws. It's also a lot more than marginally better at running a backline as well. Madigan just doesn't or can't do it. Also yes we have been playing '9 man muck' recently, if you discount going further back than last week...where that tactic was actually relatively successful and suited to the conditions.

It's one of his flaws, still better than Gopps though...
Completely marginal, Gopps can't either, he runs into dead ends as much as Mads and his passing is shoddy. Better vision, worse execution.
Big "season defining" game = 9 man muck it's happened thrice in 2015.
Playing anything else has lead to losses and draws.