Evolution of the tackle

[Reiser99]

Ok, so clearly tackling is going to have to change drastically after this World Cup. So what do people think is going to happen?

As I think McGeechan said players are going to have to adapt by targeting the legs as if you go for the waist and the player dips or slips etc... then you run the risk of hitting the head and then it's an instant card. Tackling around the chest is just asking for trouble now. On top players will be no longer able to fly in and make huge hits unless they are certain the player won't move (which 99% of the time they won't be), so tacklers will have to wait for contact so that they can adapt at the last moment.

However while taking the legs stops a player the majority of the time, the reason the big hits around the chest became more common was to stop the offload and try to knock the player back behind the gainline. Therefore the big questions are how do you protect the gainline if you can't make big hits and how do you stop the offload if you can't risk a tackle around the chest?

Double tackling isn't even safe because secondary tacklers have been carded for contact to the head. It ill be interesting to see how players and teams adapt, but I'm curious about what people on here think will happen.

 

[bushytop]

Trouble is the refs interpretation when targeting below the waist... particularly below the knee. I recall Tipuric made a great tackle (imho) on I think a Billy Vunipola in the Wales vs England game this past 6 Nations. He was subsequently penalised and you could visibly see Mount Edwards about to erupt in the stands. He had clearly instructed the Welsh boys to go low on Binny and then at the first collision/tackle, his player was pinged for something that he deemed perfectly reasonable.

in reference to the high tackle... at least Tipuric wasn't carded for his tackle I suppose.

 

[Reiser99]

Trouble is the refs interpretation when targeting below the waist... particularly below the knee. I recall Tipuric made a great tackle (imho) on I think a Billy Vunipola in the Wales vs England game this past 6 Nations. He was subsequently penalised and you could visibly see Mount Edwards about to erupt in the stands. He had clearly instructed the Welsh boys to go low on Binny and then at the first collision/tackle, his player was pinged for something that he deemed perfectly reasonable.

in reference to the high tackle... at least Tipuric wasn't carded for his tackle I suppose.

I agree the is an element of confusion when it comes to interpretations by the ref. The first two Samoan yellows where Poite said there was mitigation and then they both got cited and banned after. However if you assume as a player you have to try and take away any possibility barring circumstances beyond your control, then how can you stop teams keeping momentum with offloads or breaking the gainline because you have to absorb more of the impact.

 

[BiggusLaddus]

If double tackling is to become the norm then we can all look forward to a big increase in knee injuries as trapped ball carriers get spun around.

 

[bushytop]

I agree the is an element of confusion when it comes to interpretations by the ref. The first two Samoan yellows where Poite said there was mitigation and then they both got cited and banned after. However if you assume as a player you have to try and take away any possibility barring circumstances beyond your control, then how can you stop teams keeping momentum with offloads or breaking the gainline because you have to absorb more of the impact.

That is the big effect moving forwards under they way the tackle is being reffed. The attacking team will in all probability be able to maintain momentum. Probably a good thing from a spectators perspective.

The thing is there are a load of occasions where laws have been changed to promote attacking play and inadvertently had the opposing effect.

 

[bushytop]

If double tackling is to become the norm then we can all look forward to a big increase in knee injuries as trapped ball carriers get spun around.

And knee to head injuries also... can you imagine being on the end of an Ardie knee-drive.

Good night!

 

[Reiser99]

I agree I can definitely see this opening up games more. Especially if the offside line is refereed properly as well.

 

[bushytop]

I agree I can definitely see this opening up games more. Especially if the offside line is refereed properly as well.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Off the top of my head, my boy Sam Underhill has probably the perfect low tackle technique, combining the power and technique to knock the attacker backwards with zero risk of a card. I reckon that is the model for future tackling assuming the refereeing remains how it's been this WC.

Any other current players with a similar technique?

...if the offside line is refereed properly...

lol!

 

[bushytop]

Off the top of my head, my boy Sam Underhill has probably the perfect low tackle technique, combining the power and technique to knock the attacker backwards with zero risk of a card. I reckon that is the model for future tackling assuming the refereeing remains how it's been this WC.

Any other current players with a similar technique?

Always thought Dan Lydiate's chop tackle was very effective.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Always thought Dan Lydiate's chop tackle was very effective.

Very true

 

[mdaclarke]

The game is ok as it is.

If I wanted to watch touch rugby then I would watch touch rugby

 

[bushytop]

The game is ok as it is.

If I wanted to watch touch rugby then I would watch touch rugby

We all love the game, the problem is that as it currently stands a team could suffer a 'freak' red card at any point and it would totally undermine their chances of fulfilling their potential.

The laws have rightfully been changed to protect the players off of the back of all the concussion findings this last decade... now it's about how the game adapts and finds a 'new normal' under these provisions.

The game has been constantly evolving through law amendments since I started watching it (1987), this is just the latest adaptation.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Always thought Dan Lydiate's chop tackle was very effective.

didn't Dan have to have a metal plate inserted in his cheekbone after getting one wrong?

 

[bushytop]

didn't Dan have to have a metal plate inserted in his cheekbone after getting one wrong?

I'd actually forgotten all about that but yeah, against a Fiji in the last World Cup.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

I love this question and was cogitating on exactly this whilst ****** watching my National League 2 team today. What would happen if we played a game where every player minimised the chance of high contact? The idea of hitting high and either dislodging the ball or "winning the contact" now holds significant jeopardy. Essentially if you're not targeting the legs / hips (concussion central) you're going to struggle. The yellow for hitting a ducking Stockdale being the prime example of this. Whilst the nipple line is the nominal tackle target, you can't use that as it's possible to get it wrong and end your game. Players are going to have to go lower and lower. The risk however is the Ken Owens tackle. Hitting low against a dynamic opponent = rotation and danger.

Ultimately if you're looking to avoid concussion issues it looks like the game needs to change. My personal view is that we'll be much poorer for it but such is the litigious nature of our world that World Rugby have no choice, Employers leading their employees to suffer brain injuries will be directly and financially culpable. There is no way round this. The Genie is well and truly out of the bottle and those raging about it are wasting their time.

Will Rugby die without massive hits? I'm not sure it will to be honest. Will it change how the game is played? Absolutely it will. Big hitting lumps will become less important. Technically excellent tackling will be more important than being able to put the lights out.

 

[mdaclarke]

One other problem is that if players are no longer able to tackle we will end up with boring NBA style scoring.

Games finishing 56 to 63 or higher.

 

[bushytop]

One other problem is that if players are no longer able to tackle we will end up with boring NBA style scoring.

Games finishing 56 to 63 or higher.

It won't be the end of the tackle, just 'maybe' the end of the big hit... though 'maybe' not. I'd imagine the passive style of tackling (pulling a player down, rather than hitting a player backwards) will become more the norm moving forwards but who actually knows.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

One other problem is that if players are no longer able to tackle we will end up with boring NBA style scoring.

Games finishing 56 to 63 or higher.

Yes we will. What is your solution? The dissolution of Unions through litigation and claims? Concussion isn't some phantom issue. The evidence for contact sport causing life changing injuries is getting to be somewhat overwhelming. The world has changed, the game must change. You cannot get employees to forego their rights to safety. If you try to, you'll end up on the end of the mother of all lawsuits. It's fine to be upset and annoyed by the direction that game is taking but denying the path is a waste of energy. It must be thus and it will be.

Some fans will never be able to accept this. They will be lost to the sport. Can the sport survive it? I think it will. But those that rage against the dying of the headshot are in exactly the same boat as those that would prefer people to be allowed to drive cars without seat belts (UK). Once the die is cast there's no return.

 

[Crags]

Trying to make the game safer is costing the paying customer a equal contest. Maybe bring in a extra punishment. Nobody wants to see a red card early on in a match.