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<blockquote data-quote="Ragey Erasmus" data-source="post: 883156" data-attributes="member: 56232">True but there are varying degrees of bending the rules. If both your forearms are on the floor beyond the ball and never come off the ground, that is about as clear as not supporting your weight as you can get short of actually flopping down on them. Also Alpha you make a valid point and I&#039;d agree that English clubs compete less, but that then begs the questions couldn&#039;t it be they compete less due to stricter reffing of the breakdown and the increased likelihood of conceding a penalty rather than getting a turnover? English clubs could be struggling at the breakdown because actions that would be illegal in the Aviva are not being blown up as illegal in Europe (not releasing, bridging etc). Essentially the breakdown favours sides that go to challenge frequently.This isn&#039;t to claim all English teams lost just because of reffing differences in the breakdown but when you have English teams with players who have a proven ability to turn the ball over who in one year all suddenly lose the ability and that sudden loss of ability is predominantly with one league, well dismissing it as English clubs should git gud kinda sounds hollow.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ragey Erasmus, post: 883156, member: 56232"] True but there are varying degrees of bending the rules. If both your forearms are on the floor beyond the ball and never come off the ground, that is about as clear as not supporting your weight as you can get short of actually flopping down on them. Also Alpha you make a valid point and I'd agree that English clubs compete less, but that then begs the questions couldn't it be they compete less due to stricter reffing of the breakdown and the increased likelihood of conceding a penalty rather than getting a turnover? English clubs could be struggling at the breakdown because actions that would be illegal in the Aviva are not being blown up as illegal in Europe (not releasing, bridging etc). Essentially the breakdown favours sides that go to challenge frequently. This isn't to claim all English teams lost just because of reffing differences in the breakdown but when you have English teams with players who have a proven ability to turn the ball over who in one year all suddenly lose the ability and that sudden loss of ability is predominantly with one league, well dismissing it as English clubs should git gud kinda sounds hollow. [/QUOTE]

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