• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Enola Gay

Saints1

Straight Edge
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,579
Country Flag
England
Club or Nation
St Helens
Just found this on the BBC website, I found it really interesting.

BBC News - World News America - Enola Gay navigator has 'no regrets'

As the Japanese city of Hiroshima marks the 65th anniversary of the world's first atomic bomb attack, a member of the US crew that dropped the weapon talks to the BBC's Kristin Wilson about his memories of that day.

To his family and friends, the elderly man in a little retirement community in Georgia is just "Dutch".

But 65 years ago on Friday, Lt Theodore Van Kirk was flight navigator for the Enola Gay on its mission to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

On the morning of 6 August, 1945 he, two of the closest friends and nine other Americans took off for the flight that launched the world into the nuclear age.

"I looked out the window and saw the just-rising sun and thought about what a beautiful morning it was over the Pacific," he recalls, sitting in his home office surrounded by pictures, books, model planes, awards and mementos marking the mission.

"We didn't know at first what we were going to do. Just that maybe it would shorten the war."

The bomb killed an estimated 100,000 Japanese, but it ended the war and precluded an invasion of Japan, and Mr Van Kirk says he has no regrets. None of them did.

"Look, we did what we had to do," he says. "They were never going to give up. But I just could not see how they could continue the war and subject their people to that."

He remained friends with bombardier Tom Ferebee and pilot Paul Tibbets until their deaths in 2000 and 2007 respectively. They flew 35 missions together.

'Nine miles away'

In spring 1945, the war in Europe drew to a close while the battle in the Pacific raged on and an allied invasion of Japan seemed imminent.

The crew learned about their mission from the atomic scientists who had come to their base on the island of Tinian. But not even the scientists had all the answers.

"One said, 'We think that you'll be OK if you're nine miles away when the bomb explodes,'" he recalls. "And that kind of got our attention. And we said, 'you think?' They said, 'We just don't know. Probably best to be at least nine miles away.'"

The next order was to go get some sleep.

Mr Van Kirk laughs at the recollection.

"Sleep? After that? There was no way we were going to sleep," he says. "So, we played poker. Tom won. Tom always won at poker."

The morning of the mission arrived. For the flight, Tibbets renamed the plane in honour of his mother. The Enola Gay flew only one mission. As they neared the target the mission remained secret, even for the crew.

"They kept telling us we were going to do something and destroy an entire city," he says, shaking a knowing finger.

"But if you don't know by then what was going on, you were stupid. And if you talked about it, you were even more stupid."

As flight navigator in the days before sat-nav, Mr Van Kirk's job was to guide the plane to Hiroshima by following rivers, towns and landmarks.

The cabin was quiet the whole way there. Unusually for friends so accustomed to jokes and pranks, there was no extraneous talk, no frivolity, only talk that involved the task at hand.

"Then Tom said, 'I have it. I can't make it any better than that. I've got it down the line.'" he recalls.

And the 9,400-lb bomb, named Little Boy, dropped from the plane.

The plane turned hard to the right to escape the blast they weren't sure would even come. But Little Boy detonated 1,800ft above Hiroshima at 8.15am.

"For 43 seconds, nothing happened," he pauses.

Shock wave

"And then there was an orange light so bright from the back of the plane that I think you didn't have on goggles, you'd probably be blind."

The concussion rocked the plane like anti-aircraft fire. A second shock wave followed.

"It's like when a rock hits a still pool of water," he says. "That's the best way I can describe it."

After the shock waves subsided, Tibbets turned the plane around to survey. Contrary to reports, Mr Van Kirk flatly denies they circled the target. They just took a look before heading back, because everyone wanted a report, he says.

"General Rose wanted to know, the scientists wanted to know," he says.

"Hell, Truman wanted to know."

Radio operator Dick Nelson, the youngest of the crew at 19, sent word back to command: "Results Excellent."

Bob Lewis, the co-pilot, kept a log of the flight, and is remembered for saying the infamous words, "My God, what have we done?"

Mr Van Kirk chuckles.

Yes, Bob did keep a log, he remembers.

Sea of rubble

"But I'm not going to tell you what Bob's first thing was." He pauses. "Let's just say it was - more descriptive."

Even as he sits surrounded by mementos, Mr Van Kirk says neither he nor his friends let that day define their lives.

"We never talked about it," he says.

"We'd talk about playing golf or kids or just go visit each other."

Every year around this time the calls start coming in, he says - requests to speak at high schools, events, public appearances.

"My life now is hectic," he says. "And on the 6th it'll get even crazier. But I won't answer the calls that day. Not that day."

For him, it's a day to remember his friends. Tibbets, whom he visited on his deathbed. Ferebee, whom Mr Van Kirk called every day after he fell sick. A sad smile passes over his face.

Ferebee "told me he was going to die and asked me 'will you say nice things about me?'" he recalls with a chuckle. "I said, 'well, I will if I can think of anything.' We were just friends for life."

A picture in the book stops him.

"This was always the most poignant to me," he says, looking at a photo of a solitary man standing amidst a sea of rubble.

"After the war, we went to Nagasaki before the occupation forces arrived," he says.

"And this Japanese is returning through his home, which no longer exists. Can you imagine? Coming back to your home and finding this?"

His hands spread open over the page. Then he slowly taps the photograph.

"Coming home to nothing."
 
I thik the magnitude of the bomb is something i never undrestood...but the shockwaves from over miles away shosking the plane...thats crazy force ..
 
And to think that within 20 years that bomb's power would pale in comparison to the new fangled fusion devices. I'll tell ye something kids, the nuclear weapon has saved more lives in the last 65 years than any other human endeavour.
 
And to think that within 20 years that bomb's power would pale in comparison to the new fangled fusion devices. I'll tell ye something kids, the nuclear weapon has saved more lives in the last 65 years than any other human endeavour.

I would be inclined to agree with you there....each of the superpowers having them as a deterent and so on ..
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't disagree. It's become the ultimate deterrent.
 
Not gonna lie ... if we are not careful one of these missiles will go off.
 
I don't think there'll be a (military) nuclear explosion in our lifetime. Only North Korea and Iran have leaders ridiculously stupid enough to do it.
 
Ferebee: "Can you say good things about me?"
van Kirk: "I will, if I can think of anything"

:lol:

What more could one ask for on your deathbed?
Great story, and a great quote from that Lewis guy.
 
Interesting. I like that he got on with his life, saw it as no more than a job well done, even though it was just about the greatest moment of horror in history.

Can you distinguish between the 19y old radio operator and a 19y old doing guard duty in a Nazi extermination camp? Jew and Jap both begin with J.
 
Interesting. I like that he got on with his life, saw it as no more than a job well done, even though it was just about the greatest moment of horror in history.

Can you distinguish between the 19y old radio operator and a 19y old doing guard duty in a Nazi extermination camp? Jew and Jap both begin with J.

I find both of the cases to be absolutely horrific... but to a slight degree if one were to look at this with the machiavellian philosophy of "the end justifies the means" you could say that hundreds of thousands if not millions of japaneese lives were saved ..Had there been an invasion Japan would have been like one horrifically larger Iwo Jima.. with japan fighting to the last man...

However regarding the holocaust..nobody was saved..millions perished due to pure hatred..

So While both were disgusting Vile slaughter one had in the long run its vague benefits while the other has not got even a hint of "for the greater good"
 
I find both of the cases to be absolutely horrific... but to a slight degree if one were to look at this with the machiavellian philosophy of "the end justifies the means" you could say that hundreds of thousands if not millions of japaneese lives were saved ..Had there been an invasion Japan would have been like one horrifically larger Iwo Jima.. with japan fighting to the last man...

However regarding the holocaust..nobody was saved..millions perished due to pure hatred..

So While both were disgusting Vile slaughter one had in the long run its vague benefits while the other has not got even a hint of "for the greater good"
Racial purists can justify the Nazi extermination - I don't think any do, but they should if they are true to their beliefs.

The one argument that beats the "ends means" justification is that each life is sacred. That doesn't get us far when the overwhelming opinion is that we're just sophisticated animals, an opinion quite close to that of the racial purists. So maybe there is no value to the nuke case.
 
I know you're making points for discussion shtove, but a radio operator is in no way comparable to a guard working in an extermination camp. True, both were following orders, but the nuclear bomb was needed.
 
I know you're making points for discussion shtove, but a radio operator is in no way comparable to a guard working in an extermination camp. True, both were following orders, but the nuclear bomb was needed.

Had that bomb not dropped, then Japan would probably have faced a massacre because they were getting dominated by the war in the pacific.
 
Had that bomb not dropped, then Japan would probably have faced a massacre because they were getting dominated by the war in the pacific.

They were. They had extensively trained their people to become suicide bombers and trained them how to destroy American tanks. That's not the reason the bomb was dropped. It was to save lives, granted, but it wasn't Japanese lives.
 
They were. They had extensively trained their people to become suicide bombers and trained them how to destroy American tanks. That's not the reason the bomb was dropped. It was to save lives, granted, but it wasn't Japanese lives.

True.

General MacArthur was even heard to have said that even then, if the Japanese government lost control over its people and the millions of former Japanese soldiers took to guerilla warfare in the mountains, it could take a million American troops ten years to master the situation.

Even scarier that the Japanese people believed they were not beaten and thought they were winning.

Even before the Atomic Bomb Tokyo was attacked the results of two B-29 incendiary raids over Tokyo were quite shocking. One of these raids killed about 125,000 people, the other nearly 100,000. More that the atomic bomb did.

Yet ...On July 26, 1945, the Potsdam Ultimatum called on Japan to surrender unconditionally. On July 29 Premier Suzuki issued a statement, purportedly at a cabinet press conference, scorning as unworthy of official notice the surrender ultimatum, and emphasizing the increasing rate of Japanese aircraft production. Eight days later, on August 6, the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima; the second was dropped on August 9 on Nagasaki; on the following day, August 10, Japan declared its intention to surrender, and on August 14 accepted the Potsdam terms.

It was felt that if the bomb was not dropped then the entire island of Japan would being a huge aircraft base that would fly and counter attack with its planes. Posing more of a risk along with the threat of people of the ground. Japan would have gone to the last man to defend their country ... scary.
 
I know you're making points for discussion shtove, but a radio operator is in no way comparable to a guard working in an extermination camp. True, both were following orders, but the nuclear bomb was needed.

The Japanese who died during the bomings were'nt soilders or generals, but ordinary, hard-working people. The Jews that were killed in the holocaust were teachers, doctors, ect. A guard at a concentration camp would have been suffciantly brainwashed into believing that it was necessary to remove the Jewish fragment of the German population, just as that pilot and crew was told it was necessary to kill all of those Japanese people. Either way, I wouldn't be able to live mself if I did either. Rationalise it all you like, but the man who ultimately pressed the button is (or was) a mass murderer.
 
Was the first bomb not supposed to be dropped on Tokyo?
But wasn't for a number of reasons including fuel concerns, and increased patrols in that area?

History is written by the victor, and punishment is dealt by him.
So basically the bombadier earned the right to 'freedom', whilst the Nazi gaurd got the short end of the stick.
 

Latest posts

Top