England 2024/25

[TRF_Olyy]

Langdon should be in the 23 and considering both George and LCD are 30+ I don't want to waste opportunities on both of them.

Other changes would be a good start.

Yeah I'd do the same, was trying to keep it realistic to what Borthwick might do - otherwise I'd have them swap Chessum's injury callup for Willis and have him straight in to start

 

[Rugbyfan564]

England v New Zealand player ratings: Immanuel Feyi-Waboso becomes darling of Twickenham

Marcus Smith may feel he would have won the game for England had he not been replaced by George Ford

www.telegraph.co.uk

Furbank - 6/10
Feyi - Waboso - 9/10
Slade - 6/10
Lawerence - 6/10
Freeman - 5/10
Smith - 8/10
Spencer - 6/10
Genge - 5/10
George - 5/10
Stuart - 7/10
Itoje - 8/10
Martin - 6/10
Cunningham - South - 8/10
T Curry - 7/10
Earl - 6/10
Dan - 6/10
Baxter - 5/10
Cole - 5/10
B Curry - 7/10
Randall - 5/10
Ford - 5/10
Dombrandt - 6/10
Isiekwe - 6/10

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Harsh on George and Freeman,
Some of those 6s are generous if they've got 5s

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Well our bench lost the game as I predicted. I'm not an international level coach but I, as do many others seem to know how to use a bench unlike Borthwick.

Really disappointing end to a game we should have won.

 

[Abraxaz]

Honestly it feels like we've taken one step forward and about twenty steps backwards..

Borthwick is giving off late stage Eddie energy. But the difference is Eddie knew how to win ugly. Whilst Borthwick suffers from delusions of competency…
Our attack never looked threatening, if the all blacks were up to speed we would be seeing a cricket score.

It looks and feels like we are going back to the laughing stock days where England couldn't buy a try…

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Eddie knew how to win ugly

I mean to play devil's advocate we were one kick away (which we had two goes at) of doing that

I've never been a big proponent of the whole winning ugly though, it very quickly turns to losing ugly and not having a plan B

 

[Abraxaz]

I mean to play devil's advocate we were one kick away (which we had two goes at) of doing that

I've never been a big proponent of the whole winning ugly though, it very quickly turns to losing ugly and not having a plan B

I wonder sometimes if the attack planning meeting is like that scene from black adder goes forth..

Borthwick: we are gonna get out the trenches, kick the ball up into the air and slowly walk forward…

Marcus smith. Ahh the same plan as last time and the 9 times before that…

Borthwick, exactly. It'll be the last thing the enemy will be expecting

Marcus: one small problem with that plan sir

Borthwick; and that is?

Marcus; we always lose..

 

[TommiG88]

There is obviously a big problem with our offence. I think it certainly revolves around there not being a 12. There's no structure of fluency, even off first phase we looked confused at what we were trying.

Slade had a decent game, but you have either Lawrence or Slade at 13. We really need to find an English 12.

The 6-2 split didn't work on the bench.
I don't particularly rate Dombrandt as a change, and would feel Hill or Pearson would be a better option. Maybe too soon for Baxter but I do like him, think Obano should be in over him. Cole is certainly over the hill now.

My verdict is still out on Theo Dan. His darts aren't that great and falls off far too many tackles.

Randall was obviously told to keep to the script as he was a shell of the player that has been superb for Bristol this season.

The positives -
Feyi Waboso - just immense
Smith - did well in the grand scheme of things, terrible drop goal attempts. But it's obviously a tactic
The back 5 - I really liked the balance of the back 5. If anything I would have had Ben over Tom
Stewart - he was bloody good
I said the back 5, but Itoje was everywhere and CCS with some big hits. Shame they kept taking him off the ball

 

[TommiG88]

Watching Rugby League highlights this morning, I would love to see Herbie Farnworth in Union

 

[higgik]

Harsh on George and Freeman,
Some of those 6s are generous if they've got 5s

Agree, Freeman was better than many, he only dropped one defensive kick at beginning. He was overshadowed by IFW highlights reel, but was good overall.
On Slade, looked like he was trying hard to get up to speed.
I always think, 2 playmaker enough, so we currently are trying 10/15, which means 12 power runners at 12/13 are needed to create space outside.
Maybe Awanyu and Lawrence or try Lawrence and Freeman, with Sleightholme on wing. This would match up with the Boks back line better as well.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I mean to play devil's advocate we were one kick away (which we had two goes at) of doing that

I've never been a big proponent of the whole winning ugly though, it very quickly turns to losing ugly and not having a plan B

Absolutely. Our whole philosophy is getting in a "arm wrestle"

Out of all the philosophies/identities to pick why the **** go for that one. We don't even have the players for it anymore.

Mind you, given our 9/10 game losing streak or whatever it is I'll take a 9-6 victory against Fiji. I've resigned myself to the fact any win we're lucky to get is a ugly one.

 

[higgik]

So team for next week???
Maybe writing your team and the expected SB one!!!

 

[TommiG88]

So team for next week???
Maybe writing your team and the expected SB one!!!

It will be the same 23 minus any injuries.

I think he'll stick to the 6-2 bench split

 

[Rugbyfan564]

 

[Rugbyfan564]

It feels like Borthwick has to win Against Australia and Japan or the knives will be out for him.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Sounds like it's him putting his family first and not wanting to be away from home. Big love for that

 

[Welsh Exile]

I was going to say "oh again is it joe" but he got that in his first line. Fair play. Good luck to him.

 

[higgik]

I was going to say "oh again is it joe" but he got that in his first line. Fair play. Good luck to him.

Had the privilege of meeting him by chance at a petrol station near where he lives, as well as seeing him at a local golf course.
Always struggled with the limelight and just wanted to be a local Sussex boy.
He signed a card for me and was incredibly taken that I wanted his autograph.
Says a lot about the guy.
The bravado was all to cover up a lack of confidence and security.

 

[Which Tyler]

It feels like Borthwick has to win Against Australia and Japan or the knives will be out for him.

Absolutely they will be.
He'll still get the 6N either way, but if he goes 0/4 this Autumn, that's his international career over (unless/until rehabbed elsewhere).

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Absolutely they will be.
He'll still get the 6N either way, but if he goes 0/4 this Autumn, that's his international career over (unless/until rehabbed elsewhere).

Or they can't afford to sack him/ can't find another replacement (Will they keep to English only which was the criteria when Jones went)