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Cruden out for six months

hjklhjkl said:
Damn. The All Blacks should hopefully be fine but i don't see the Chiefs wining the ***le without him.



You reckon? I'm pretty sure Cruden was their First choice 10 and now it could be any one of Barret, Slade or Carter.
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While it's hard to cover the loss of someone like Cruden the Chiefs have enough experience and ability in their squad to deal with it. McKenzie is a like for like replacement, so he's far better suited to carry the team than Anscombe was last season.

I more meant that the selectors won't have to make the call to leave any of the contenders at home!
 
Ooof!!!. I know we are well covered at 1st 5/8th, but I really was hoping Cruden would be fit as he's our most reliable 10. We may be well covered, but let's not forget Daniel Carter (is a god but also) has legs made of glass and skin of rice paper.

Barrett is a great 10 and 15, but he hasn't had a tonne of time at 1st 5/8th and he still occasionally makes some poor moves (against the Waratahs I think he took it himself too often with options out wide - and threw an intercept pass which happens to every 10 at some point).

Slade has played well, but for some reason I still don't think he's quite there. Last World Cup he simply was quite terrible, which was four years ago admittedly but still makes me a little uneasy. The nice thing is both Barrett and Slade are options at 23, which means I think Hansen will start looking at employing a first receiver at fullback more often (which worked really nicely against Wales last match).

Outside of how this effects the team, it's a real shame for Cruden. This was the World Cup in which he is arguably in his prime, and so he'll likely to feature in a RWC at the ages of 22 and 30. He's obviously won a RWC final (in unfortunate circumstances if they exist), but I think this was a chance for him to really begin to forge a legacy.
 
Gutted for him as a player has really dominated this world cup cycle for the AB's and always comes across as a good bloke.
 
While this is gutting for him its not a huge surprise.... I expect he'll be back in time for the WC though.

Surely Lima (Tony Brown) Sopoaga has to get the call up now. Mckenzie is just to young and needs to bulk up.

I guess we'll get to see how good Slade and Barrett are over the rugby championship (and weather Carter actually has a decent game left in him) as really if Cruden had started most of those games it wouldnt make any difference to our WC chances anyway atleast he's broken down now not during the frigging final like last time!!


Wasnt it Cruden I saw getting his knee hyper extended in a tackle a couple weeks back or was that someone else? Was it Mckenzie?


You gotta wonder though If I was the opposition coaches going into the rugby championship id be running every big man in the team directly at the AB first five from here out. Just saying.

Id be putting all our first fives on a ban from tackling Will Skelton aswell.....
 
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austingtir said:
While this is gutting for him its not a huge surprise.... I expect he'll be back in time for the WC though.
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The general opinion is that (barring late call ups during the tournament) he's out of the world cup. He's having a full reconstruction.
 
sucks, and its really not good for him at all. Its not the same knee he did in the world cup final.... its his good knee... It basically just gave way when he was away from contact...

chiefs will be fine if McKenzie is managed well and Horrell improves his goal kicking. All Blacks will be fine too, May not even need to call in another 10. Slade, carter and Barrett is enough options, Slade was really only in the squad as injury cover himself. But Obviously there is now and opportunity for Sopoanga if any of those three get injured.

I also think that if McKenzie continues to play they way he is then he could be considered as well. If he continues to play out of his skin and turn in performances like the first full game he had replacing Cruden then they shouldn't just not pick him because he's 19, he doesn't seem like the kid who would be phased by anything and its good to have some unknown quantities in the squad that opposition teams wont know inside out.

I really dont think the All Blacks can or should just win this world cup in cruse mode, using only established players. I really want to see them pick the form players, manage them well and go for it gunz blazing. Because that's what everyone else will be doing.

There is also Dan Bowden who has been building his game nicely for the blues. I'm sure people will remember that when he left NZ last time he had basically put himself in a position where he would have been an All Black if he had stayed. Though I say that without knowing anything of his plans post this season with the blues.
 
Larksea said:
sucks, and its really not good for him at all. Its not the same knee he did in the world cup final.... its his good knee... It basically just gave way when he was away from contact...

chiefs will be fine if McKenzie is managed well and Horrell improves his goal kicking. All Blacks will be fine too, May not even need to call in another 10. Slade, carter and Barrett is enough options, Slade was really only in the squad as injury cover himself. But Obviously there is now and opportunity for Sopoanga if any of those three get injured.

I also think that if McKenzie continues to play they way he is then he could be considered as well. If he continues to play out of his skin and turn in performances like the first full game he had replacing Cruden then they shouldn't just not pick him because he's 19, he doesn't seem like the kid who would be phased by anything and its good to have some unknown quantities in the squad that opposition teams wont know inside out.

I really dont think the All Blacks can or should just win this world cup in cruse mode, using only established players. I really want to see them pick the form players, manage them well and go for it gunz blazing. Because that's what everyone else will be doing.

There is also Dan Bowden who has been building his game nicely for the blues. I'm sure people will remember that when he left NZ last time he had basically put himself in a position where he would have been an All Black if he had stayed. Though I say that without knowing anything of his plans post this season with the blues.
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Certainly wouldn't go that far with Bowden - never looked particularly close to the All Blacks from my perspective, and when he left was when we had a terrible selection of 10s (and he was mainly being used at 12 for the Crusaders).

Certainly can't knock McKenzie, but you'd hate for him to be the next Ben Atiga. That said he's certainly been looking assured. I'd probably still go with Sopoaga in the event of an injury just because he's been pretty reliable. Can run a backline, tackle and goal kick well. If we get down to a point where we need another 10, probably better to go with the guy best able to execute the game plan than take a risk on something new.
 
TRF_nickdnz said:
If we get down to a point where we need another 10, probably better to go with the guy best able to execute the game plan than take a risk on something new.
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I honestly think that safety first attitude could get the All Blacks in trouble and I think we will lose it if we try and just go through on cruise control taking all the safe options. That kinda thinking is great for winning us test series and rugby championships year in year out and completing unbeaten tours north. But World cup finals are a different beast all together.

I dont think Bowed is anywhere yet but he should be on the radar and there are still a few months to go. I do remember when he left one of the All Black coaches basically said he would have been in the AB squad if he had stayed. He signed overseas early in a season with little chance of making the AB's and had a blinder of a season before he took off.
 
Larksea said:
sucks, and its really not good for him at all. Its not the same knee he did in the world cup final.... its his good knee... It basically just gave way when he was away from contact...

chiefs will be fine if McKenzie is managed well and Horrell improves his goal kicking. All Blacks will be fine too, May not even need to call in another 10. Slade, carter and Barrett is enough options, Slade was really only in the squad as injury cover himself. But Obviously there is now and opportunity for Sopoanga if any of those three get injured.

I also think that if McKenzie continues to play they way he is then he could be considered as well. If he continues to play out of his skin and turn in performances like the first full game he had replacing Cruden then they shouldn't just not pick him because he's 19, he doesn't seem like the kid who would be phased by anything and its good to have some unknown quantities in the squad that opposition teams wont know inside out.

I really dont think the All Blacks can or should just win this world cup in cruse mode, using only established players. I really want to see them pick the form players, manage them well and go for it gunz blazing. Because that's what everyone else will be doing.

There is also Dan Bowden who has been building his game nicely for the blues. I'm sure people will remember that when he left NZ last time he had basically put himself in a position where he would have been an All Black if he had stayed. Though I say that without knowing anything of his plans post this season with the blues.
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Lima would have to get a shout ahead of Bowden (also don't remember him being anywhere near AB level) and being a former highlander i always kept my eye on him...i would say both are a long shot though
 
They will Defs pick a 4th 10 with carter made of glass. My tip at this current point is McKenzie. People talk about his size but he would have one of the lowest miss tackle counts in super rugby. Boy can tackle, lead a back line and makes great decisions. Will be interesting
 
there is no room for a 4th 10 in a world cup squad which will probably be limited to 31 players
keep in mind its held in England and will be a forward orientated world cup, so your looking at 13 or 14 backs in the squad MAX, you can't set 4 spots aside to cover one position

usually only room for 2, Barrett was included as a 3rd because he can play wing and fullback and slade only included as well because of injury but they can't do that during a world cup to bring a player in you have to take a player out and that player can't come back into the squad again. It's very strict.

It's going to be carter, Barrett and Slade
McKenzie and Lima come into calculations if one of them gets injured.

only a handful of tests before the world cup makes things interesting. It would be cool if McKenzie got a run before the world cup to see how he goes but I still cant see room for him in the world cup unless there is an injury.
 
If that's the case McKenzie should get some game time pre world cup. Wouldn't want to debut someone in a cup. That south african and Argentina away games should be experimental as it gets. 2nd and 3rd string players
 
Hard luck for Cruden. He went down similiar to Quade against Wales, no contact - knee just gave way. I had a feeling it wasn't going to be good when he went down like that.

I'd go with Barrett, Slade, Carter in that particular order with Sopoaga as backup.

I'd only vote against McKenzie due to lack of experience, although if he gets the nod as starting 10 for the chiefs over Andrew Horrell then who knows, he may give Hansen something to think about. His size doesn't mean he's not a good player, although if it was me, I'd spend 80 minutes running away from forwards :)
 
why not have dagg cover 10 as a 4th option incase another injury occurs in the WC? then we can have BSmith on fallback... o.m.g did i just start a ID/BS war :O
 
If Carter stays fit he will be selected for the first test, regardless of form. And if he stays fit he will be selected for the WC, again regardless of form. Hansen has put too much time into his recovery and Carter has a 'life membership' on the jersey due to previous heroics....imo.
 
Icemn said:
why not have dagg cover 10 as a 4th option incase another injury occurs in the WC? then we can have BSmith on fallback... o.m.g did i just start a ID/BS war :O
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Because Dagg has barely played any 10, and no games starting at 10 in the last 4 years from my memory...
 

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