Chiliboy

[ranger]

I have noticed that there is a very negative sentiment towards Chiliboy on this forum, and i can understand it to an extent in that he seems to have been given a free pass to the Springbok side based on little action in the Super 14.

However, i actually think he should be there. If anyone remembers he was an absolute superstar in the junior levels.He captained the Springbok under 18 side, then the Springbok under 19s and in the same year played for the under 21s, becoming a double world champion in the same year. He captained the 21s the next year and although SA didn't win, he was the best player in the team by a long way. His gaining captancy of these teams wasn't by fluke like his international career, he was actually dominant against sides like NZ at that level, he earned his spots in those teams and i remember thinking that he was going to be a superstar.

His game on the weekend against France showed that he is actually a talented player, he showed glimpses of what he was capable of at junior levels and i think that's awesome. People can say that he should have to earn his spot by working up from Super 14 level, but with the likes of Derek Kuun selected over him, its hard for him to prove himself.

Obviously when you see blatant quota picks you get ****** off, but you have to weigh this up with the absolute mismanagement of black players in South Africa (not always but still..) when you look at talented black players like Kabamba Floors, Wayne Julies, Hanyani Shimange, Solly Tyibilika and how they had their careers squandered you can see why PDV has gone, "**** this, this kid is a potential world-class hooker, i'm not leaving his career in the hands of these coaches, i'll develop him in the National Squad myself."

I'm not a fan of quota picks at all, but in this case i think it needs to be done. If PDV can get him kicking on from the form he showed as a 19 year old then it is definitely in the Springboks favour.

Anyway that's my rant, haterz probably gona hate but there it is. I just hope people aren't too consumed with rage at his selection to view the games he subsequently plays unbiasedly is all.

 

[Seaton]

Good post, I felt he held his own against France on the weekend, but as you say, he hardly ever made the bench for the S14, and by just slotting him into the team he is throwing him in the deep end, which could have even worse effects on his career. I just don't believe he has it in him to make it to the top level, where as SA's other hookers have greater speed, physical presence, turnover ability, tackling, scrumming and general ball carrying abilities.
Well it is good that talent is being looked out for, Chiliboy is not that young as people think he is anymore, and there are other players who are the same age (if not younger) who have better abilities than him, so why not try to develop them?

 

[User1245]

No, no and no

 

[Jer1cho]

It's not his talent that is in question. It's why he is there when he has not played a full game the whole season. If he starts for his club, and plays well every week, then it's ok. But he sits back and does nothing, while other hookers play their hearts out to get picked, but are overlooked. I can also promise you John Smit has a huge part in his selection. John Smit was after all the one paying for Chilly-Boy's schooling at Pretoria Boys High School...

 

[ranger]

It's not his talent that is in question. It's why he is there when he has not played a full game the whole season. If he starts for his club, and plays well every week, then it's ok. But he sits back and does nothing, while other hookers play their hearts out to get picked, but are overlooked. I can also promise you John Smit has a huge part in his selection. John Smit was after all the one paying for Chilly-Boy's schooling at Pretoria Boys High School...

Well that question needs to be asked of his provincial coaches. I have read in the papers about PDV saying that young black players can't come through if the provincial coaches choose not to play them. It was criminal that he was sitting on the bench behind Kuun given his talent. He made his NZ opposition look like children in the younger levels, which i don't admit to very often.
He isn't getting any game time, and you say that he shouldn't be called up to the national side unless he plays a considerable amount of rugby for his club. Ordinarily i'd back that sentiment, but its not really his fault if the coaches continuously choose not to play him. I wouldn't say hes sitting back and doing nothing, he just can't catch a break from his provincial coaches. Maybe he needs to move to the Lions or Cheetahs

 

[rugbywriter]

Some of you guys (ranger) don't think before you say something. If the Bulls have a better hooker, why must Rallepelle be called in? Shouldn't the BEST hooker be called in? Or are you honestly saying that you think Rallepelle is better then Gary Botha or Tiaan Liebenberg? You make out like he put in a MOM performance on Saturday. He just played decently. He didn't make any mistakes but he didn't set the world alight. Jeez, when ever the quota players don't make it a complete shambles people like you always say "Great game! Well played!". Open your eyes, stop trying your ass off to not sound racist and get over that liberal feel-good feeling I bet you have whenever you talk up the quota players. Rallepelle isn't in the top 5 available hookers in the country, so he musn't be in the squad, plain and simple.

 

[Jer1cho]

The problem is not his playing ability. He struggled with injury, and then others played ahead of him played well in his absence. He can't just come back after injury and replace Gary Botha, who has been playing well. It's very hard, especially because he is at the Bulls. It's a really tough situation for him, and it's not really his fault. He needs to play for a different club in my opinion. Perhaps the Lions, or even the Cheetahs or Stormers. With Maku, Botha and Kuun, he is never going to get game time for the Bulls after having been out for so long.

 

[TyphoonsRugby]

Jeez, when ever the quota players don't make it a complete shambles people like you always say "Great game! Well played!". Open your eyes, stop trying your ass off to not sound racist and get over that liberal feel-good feeling I bet you have whenever you talk up the quota players.

Seriously, you really need to shut up with your political **** throwing on here. We're talking rugby, not politics and you seem to forget that all too often. If you really think people need to change run for a position in politics instead of preaching **** no-one really cares about other than yourself. Yes there is a quota system in place that isnt exactly official, yes it is blatantly obvious PdV is choosing coloured players with no talent (how the hell did Earl Rose get into the Boks or even the Lions.....) and most people can agree to that. So instead of starting arguements or putting out little embers like the above go talk to someone about how to get into politics and change the world that way, not parked up behind your computer. Enough said.

 

[admartian]

Some of you guys (ranger) don't think before you say something. If the Bulls have a better hooker, why must Rallepelle be called in? Shouldn't the BEST hooker be called in? Or are you honestly saying that you think Rallepelle is better then Gary Botha or Tiaan Liebenberg? You make out like he put in a MOM performance on Saturday. He just played decently. He didn't make any mistakes but he didn't set the world alight. Jeez, when ever the quota players don't make it a complete shambles people like you always say "Great game! Well played!". Open your eyes, stop trying your ass off to not sound racist and get over that liberal feel-good feeling I bet you have whenever you talk up the quota players. Rallepelle isn't in the top 5 available hookers in the country, so he musn't be in the squad, plain and simple.

I don't think that's what he was trying to say at all. I believe ranger was basing it on his performances in the age-group levels, and backing it up with a recent performance.

I thought it was a well thought out post, and that ranger made himself clear as to what he thinks of the whole quota issue.

Maybe you should come back and review, before you post after that fit of rage. Just a friendly suggestion mate.

 

[SavageLez]

I have noticed that there is a very negative sentiment towards Chiliboy on this forum, and i can understand it to an extent in that he seems to have been given a free pass to the Springbok side based on little action in the Super 14.

However, i actually think he should be there. If anyone remembers he was an absolute superstar in the junior levels.He captained the Springbok under 18 side, then the Springbok under 19s and in the same year played for the under 21s, becoming a double world champion in the same year. He captained the 21s the next year and although SA didn't win, he was the best player in the team by a long way. His gaining captancy of these teams wasn't by fluke like his international career, he was actually dominant against sides like NZ at that level, he earned his spots in those teams and i remember thinking that he was going to be a superstar.

His game on the weekend against France showed that he is actually a talented player, he showed glimpses of what he was capable of at junior levels and i think that's awesome. People can say that he should have to earn his spot by working up from Super 14 level, but with the likes of Derek Kuun selected over him, its hard for him to prove himself.

Obviously when you see blatant quota picks you get ****** off, but you have to weigh this up with the absolute mismanagement of black players in South Africa (not always but still..) when you look at talented black players like Kabamba Floors, Wayne Julies, Hanyani Shimange, Solly Tyibilika and how they had their careers squandered you can see why PDV has gone, "**** this, this kid is a potential world-class hooker, i'm not leaving his career in the hands of these coaches, i'll develop him in the National Squad myself."

I'm not a fan of quota picks at all, but in this case i think it needs to be done. If PDV can get him kicking on from the form he showed as a 19 year old then it is definitely in the Springboks favour.

Anyway that's my rant, haterz probably gona hate but there it is. I just hope people aren't too consumed with rage at his selection to view the games he subsequently plays unbiasedly is all.

Chiiliboy is good but he is not as good as Garry Botha or Liebenburg. It was Jake White who pushed for Chilliboy to be selected and PdV is only following suite. I think John Smit has a big say in it. They were at the same school and he is no real threat to John Smit when he is rested hence John always blows his trumpet when Chilliboy plays! As for Solly Tybilika and Kabamba Floors, they were great but were lazy and did not rock up to training. Jake White gave Hanyani Shimange and Wayne Julies all the opportunities and unfairly so as there were many players stronger than them. Schalk Brits, Gary Botha always lost out because of Shimange's selection while players like Brad Barritt and Abbott are now playing/played for England because of Julies and other quota selections.

 

[SavageLez]

Well that question needs to be asked of his provincial coaches. I have read in the papers about PDV saying that young black players can't come through if the provincial coaches choose not to play them. It was criminal that he was sitting on the bench behind Kuun given his talent. He made his NZ opposition look like children in the younger levels, which i don't admit to very often.
He isn't getting any game time, and you say that he shouldn't be called up to the national side unless he plays a considerable amount of rugby for his club. Ordinarily i'd back that sentiment, but its not really his fault if the coaches continuously choose not to play him. I wouldn't say hes sitting back and doing nothing, he just can't catch a break from his provincial coaches. Maybe he needs to move to the Lions or Cheetahs

His injuries have plagued his career and selection by coaches. It is not Derek Kuhn but rather Garry Botha keeping him out and understandingly so. He is an experienced cmapaigner with two S14 championships under the belt!

 

[smartcooky]

You have asked for an opinion so here it is, but you may not like it and what it comes with.

Firstly, Ralepelle does not deserve his place in the Springboks. I am not convinced that he is the No. 2 hooker in South Africa, not by a long shot. He may have held his own against France, but as we could all see, that French team weren't much interested in touring, and Argentina dealt with them accordingly a week or two later. He will find the going MUCH tougher against the All Blacks and Australia, even with the latter's front row difficulties. Ralepelle struggled when picked as the starting hooker in the 3rd test against the Lions last year, and he has hardly seen any action since then.

Secondly, I am opposed to any race-based system for selecting national teams in any sport. I opposed the 1981 Springbok tour of New Zealand, although I was unable to march because I was in the military at the time. With out that constraint, I would have been on the street protesting. Why? Because that Springbok team was race based with a "token black" (Errol Tobias) thrown in to try give an appearance of merit selection. I found that offensive, and I feared it was damaging for Rugby.

The current policy of "quotas" is just a mealy mouthed term for doing exactly what the white South Africans did for a 100 years or more; select teams based on race. The moment a player is selected because of his race ahead of a player of greater ability, you do BOTH players an injustice, and you hurt the cause of rugby for members of both races.

This "quota" system is a crock of ****. Its reverse racism, and I am certain that it is not what Nelson Mandela and Mangosuthu Buthelezi fought so long and so hard to achieve.

 

[nickdnz]

I'll tell you who I was always impressed with, but never seemed to get a fair go. Hanyani Shimange. I thought he was a very good hooker, and always wondered why he never got more game. Anyone share my sentiments?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

What bugs me is people that always blame the fact that a black guy is not being selected on racism. There's mor to it than that. I don't want to attack anyone but people should stop seeing white South Africans as racists. Even before Apartheid ended the normal white South African citizen wasn't as bad as people thought.

Chiliboy Rallepelle is a decent hooker but not top-class. If he was, he would play for the Bulls weekly. It's disgusting to play the racism-card everytime a black player is not selected or a white player is presumed to be better.

 

[smartcooky]

What bugs me is people that always blame the fact that a black guy is not being selected on racism. There's mor to it than that. I don't want to attack anyone but people should stop seeing white South Africans as racists. Even before Apartheid ended the normal white South African citizen wasn't as bad as people thought.

Chiliboy Rallepelle is a decent hooker but not top-class. If he was, he would play for the Bulls weekly. It's disgusting to play the racism-card everytime a black player is not selected or a white player is presumed to be better.

I know that white South Africans in general are not the big bad card-carrying racists that the media outside the Republic make them out to be. I don't believe they ever were (my sister is actually married to one and has lived in Pretoria for over 30 years). Having said that, a policy which sets a "quota" for a minimum number of players of a certain race is morally repugnant. In doing so, the current South African government carries out a similar policy to that which their predecessors fought against; the selection of their National sports teams based on race rather than merit.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

A quota like that is the worst idea I've heard, sorry to say. If you tell a coach to select a number of black players, a number of white players and a number of coloured players it's basically racism.

Everybody is equal, also in sports. If the best 22 players of the country happen to be 19 white people, 2 coloured and 1 black, so be it.

I don't see them selecting at least 5 white football-players for Bafana Bafana. I don't want them to do that. The best players should play, regardless of race.

 

[Seaton]

The coach for the SA schools team was told today he no longer has to worry about quotas, and that he can start selecting on merit, don't know the statistics but this could be because of the large number of coloured players playing in the Coca Cola Cravenweek (an annual week long competition between unions that are represented by schoolboys)

Hopefully this will go up through the higher levels of the game.

 

[lucky number 7]

Some of you guys (ranger) don't think before you say something. .

i find the irony here brilliant..

 

[SavageLez]

You have asked for an opinion so here it is, but you may not like it and what it comes with.

Firstly, Ralepelle does not deserve his place in the Springboks. I am not convinced that he is the No. 2 hooker in South Africa, not by a long shot. He may have held his own against France, but as we could all see, that French team weren't much interested in touring, and Argentina dealt with them accordingly a week or two later. He will find the going MUCH tougher against the All Blacks and Australia, even with the latter's front row difficulties. Ralepelle struggled when picked as the starting hooker in the 3rd test against the Lions last year, and he has hardly seen any action since then.

Secondly, I am opposed to any race-based system for selecting national teams in any sport. I opposed the 1981 Springbok tour of New Zealand, although I was unable to march because I was in the military at the time. With out that constraint, I would have been on the street protesting. Why? Because that Springbok team was race based with a "token black" (Errol Tobias) thrown in to try give an appearance of merit selection. I found that offensive, and I feared it was damaging for Rugby.

The current policy of "quotas" is just a mealy mouthed term for doing exactly what the white South Africans did for a 100 years or more; select teams based on race. The moment a player is selected because of his race ahead of a player of greater ability, you do BOTH players an injustice, and you hurt the cause of rugby for members of both races.

This "quota" system is a crock of ****. Its reverse racism, and I am certain that it is not what Nelson Mandela and Mangosuthu Buthelezi fought so long and so hard to achieve.

Absolutely brilliant f.... post! I wish something could be done about this!