Cardiff Blues

[dullonien]

There's been quite a bit of talk about the Cardiff Blues spread amongst quite a few different threads (the Henson thread, Roberts thread and the Glasgow v Blues thread), so thought that it might be worth starting a dedicated thread to discuss what's going wrong and what can be done to change things at the Cardiff Blues.

In my option, there's a number of current issues effecting the region, these involve:

- Poor coaches in Baber and Burnell.
- Too much influence from Peter Thomas and the rest of the board (who's decision was it to sign Henson in the first place, because it didn't appear that B&B wanted him there)
- Player exodus. Gwyn Jones suggested that 15 players will be leaving at the end of the season. We know a number of the already (Gethin Jenkins, Rhys Thomas, Casey Laulala, Richie Rees, Dan Parks, with rumours about John Yapp, Tom James, Alex Cuthbert, and a few players being released/retiring in Martyn Williams, Molitika, ***o?, Blair?)
- Uncertainties about where the Blues will be playing. Are they staying at the CCS or are they returning to Cardiff Arms Park?
- Poor crowds. This is an issue throughout Wales, but it's still hitting the Blues hard. With so many big-name players leaving, is this only going to get worse?
- Relationship with the rest of the region. The valleys are part of the Blues region, but they certainly don't feel like they are, and are players from Ponty etc. are getting a fair chance with the Blues?
- Lack of quality tightheads.

That's quite a few issues to sort through. What can be done to change some of these? Changing the coaches would be a good start, but certainly won't solve everything.

 

[Robert Prosser]

Well at the moment these players Gethin Jenkins (Toulon), Casey Laulala (Munster), Dan Parks(Connacht), Richie Rees(TBA), Martyn Williams(released), John Yapp(Edinburgh), Rhys Thomas(Wasps), also heard Maama Molitika(retiring), Deiniol Jones(retiring), and Ceri Sweeney(Ponty) are all leaving the end of the season, while Ben Blair is in advanced talks with a French outfit Agen and there are on-going doubts over the futures of Alex Cuthbert, Tom James, Tao Filise, Paul ***o and Ryan Tyrrel. Also lost Gareth Williams who also retired due to injury.

The problem with them staying in the CCS or playing at CAP is the simple fact they charge way too much for games in Wales £20+ cheapest match day tickets when you can get to see Leinster vs Munster for half that, surely the regions must realise that by halving the ticket prices they will get more fans through the doors, with more people there more merchandise gets sold, pies get bought, programmes before you know it the money they loss by selling the tickets at half teh normal price is made back with interest due to people buying stuff the grounds. I feel this is a big problem in all the regions in Wales where they are simply pricing people out of going to see the games especially when for a lot of the season the best players are not even playing due to international duty.

Lack of quality props in general I would say the blues are going to struggle big time next season with out Gethin Jenkins.

The relationship with the valleys I feel is getting very strained with a lot of the teams feeling a biased towards Cardiff RFC and not a fair crack at the whip for hte boys from the likes of Ponty, Merthyr etc.

The coaches for me are a big problem because they are just simply useless as been proven wit the way the Henson situation was handled, and the way they handled him while he was there., the trouble come straight from the top Thomas has a lot to answer for, the cost cutting has to be done but come on at least put a decent coach there not two dumbwits who couldnt do it and club level.

Also Peter Thomas was the man who decided on to bring Henson in and he ultimately decided he had to go Thomas as also had this to say about the player exodus.
"We will be bringing in some quality players and we have got some fantastic youth coming through," he said.

"We will have a great side next year."

 

[dullonien]

So at this point in time this is the kind of team the Blues might be putting out next season:

01 Nathan Trevett
02 Marc Breeze
03 Scott Andrews
04 Bradley Davies
05 Lou Reed
06 Michael Paterson
07 Sam Warburton
08 Xavier Rush

09 Lloyd Williams
10 Jason Tovey
11 Harry Robinson
12 Jamie Roberts
13 Gavin Evans
14 Chris Czekaj
15 Leigh Halfpenny

16 Rhys Williams
17 Sam Hobbs
18 ???? A loosehead.
19 James Down/Macauley Cook
20 Josh Navidi
21 Rhys Downes
22 ???? Someone who can play 10.
23 Dafydd Hewitt

That is of course if they lose all the players Robert Prosser mentioned above. From what I gather there are rumours that Alex Cuthbert will be one of the first players to be dual contracted by the WRU and the Blues in an attempt to keep him in Wales, so hopefully he'll still be available. Not sure on Tau Filise (but he is 35 and has had an injury ravaged season), ***o (again he's 34), and Tyrrel (rubbish).

Hopefully they can bring in a few players to replace those leaving. They simply have to find a tighthead prop that can scrummage (scour the ProD2 in France, League 1 in England, just find a prop that doesn't get his head shoved through his arse at every scrum!), and something similar on the loose (Rhys Gill?). They're gonna be a bit thin on the ground at blindside until Pretorius returns, but maybe Cook can be emergency cover, or Warbs can shift over with Navidi coming in at 7. There is still no cover at 8, wasn't there talk of a possible return to Wales for Gareth Delve?

In the backs, I have no idea who will be the backup 10. The Blues haven't been willing to try anyone from their academy this season despite both Parks and Sweeney being pretty much useless, so I don't see where the cover is going to magically come from. Tovey should make a much, much better first choice than the two leaving. In the centre, it looks like the Scarlets reject Gavin Evans will partner Jamie Roberts, which doesn't fill me with excitement (the Evans bit, not Roberts).

Hopefully there are some academy players getting close to being ready to step in. Dan Fish should be used more at fullback instead of shifting Czekaj there all the time. Who are the others, I'm not clued up enough?

Edit. As for the stadium business. I can't remember what the agreement was, but are the Blues still paying for rent at the CAP? They still had a contract with the Athletic Club if I remember right, so does that mean they're currently paying two rents at the moment, in the middle of a recession when they're cutting wages etc.? Judging by the fact that they were able to move two games back to the CAP so easily, I'd say the answer to that is yet. Barmy decision in the first place, which has totally backfired with the reduction in crowds, not the improvement I'm sure they were hoping for.

I wonder if Dale Macintosh would be up for the coaching role? Could help forge some ties with Ponty and the valleys in general? Not sure either Peter Thomas (the whiney git) or The Chief would be up for it though.

 

[Robert Prosser]

Rhys Patchell (fly half/full back) I assume would be used as cover for number 10 not forgetting in the flanks they have signed Robin Copeland from Rotherham, with Luke Hamilton (lock/flanker) in the academy and Thomas Young (flanker), Owen Williams (centre/wing) will I assume be cover for Hewitt, Evans and Roberts, I thought we would of gone for Rhys Gill but heard he signed a new contract at his club. at Full back its Halfpenny first choice with well personaly I would put Fish there before Czekaj but they seem to want to turn Czakaj into a fuul back (the coaches need to learn I feel not all wingers make good full backs)

The last I heard about Delve was chances are he was going to France but his club refuted any claims and stated hes staying with them but im not sure would love him at the Blues we need him.
Number 8 we are screwed not got anyone we need a new player there, also the tighthead prop Jamie Corsi now sure whats happened to him this season but hes not featured.

 

[psychic duck]

01 Nathan Trevett
02 Marc Breeze
03 Scott Andrews

I'm sure the front row of Jenkins - Bruno - Hayman will be shaking in their boots coming up against that front row

shame Rhys Gill changed his mind about returning to Wales, he would have fitted in nicely, Gareth Delve isn't coming to the Blues either

they should sign the props from the Principality Premiership XV side, they looked very good, at that level at least

remember they have signed that Leinster academy product from Rotherham, Robin Copeland to replace Molitika, he plays 6 and 8 and has scored 13 tries this season for Rotherham which is quite impressive for a forward, he should be back up for Rush and competition for Paterson and Pretorius

I can't see the Blues making any spectacular signings for next season, looks like they are just dipping into the bargain basement of who's cheap and available

 

[Draggs]

If they do end up bringing Ponty players in, add Owen Sheppeard (8) and Lewis Williams (10) into the squad. Helps in their weakest positions.
Cory Allen and Owen Williams would probably be next up after Roberts, Hewitt, Evans.

Kristian Dacey has had injury problems, but could be a decent hooker.

 

[dullonien]

Kristian Dacey has had injury problems, but could be a decent hooker.

I've liked the look of Rhys Williams at hooker, but for some unknown reason to me, B&B seem to think that Tyrrel and Breeze are better options, despite being generally rubbish all season.

 

[Draggs]

I've liked the look of Rhys Williams at hooker, but for some unknown reason to me, B&B seem to think that Tyrrel and Breeze are better options, despite being generally rubbish all season.

There's the problem.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

[h=1]Cardiff Blues coach Gareth Baber insists he and Justin Burnell deserve to remain in charge[/h]
A joke I hope.

​

 

[psychic duck]

I can't wait for this coming Ospreys v Blues derby

Scott Andrews at scrum time should be an early Christmas present for the Ospreys

if Biggar has an on-day then maybe with a few tries then the Ospreys can finish the job Leinster started and get B & B out

 

[Draggs]

Can I do the obligatory Nick Mallett and John Kirwan suggestion?
Seems to be needed for every team who needs a coach right now.

Nick Mallett or John Kirwan should take over.

Also, Paul James will give Andrews a lesson. If he can't handle the might of Cian Healy, I dread to think of what Paul will do to him. Very tough scrummager, amongst the most underrated players in Wales. Going out on a massive limb here, but I'd have him on the Lions bench if it is only one prop replacement. Yep, I'm odd.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Can I do the obligatory Nick Mallett and John Kirwan suggestion?
Seems to be needed for every team who needs a coach right now.

Nick Mallett or John Kirwan should take over.

Also, Paul James will give Andrews a lesson. If he can't handle the might of Cian Healy, I dread to think of what Paul will do to him. Very tough scrummager, amongst the most underrated players in Wales. Going out on a massive limb here, but I'd have him on the Lions bench if it is only one prop replacement. Yep, I'm odd.

Mallett and Kirwan were touted when Young went. Now we have no money, highly doubt they would come.

Both have said they would relish a challenge, is a Blues a challenge for them?

 

[Draggs]

Mallett and Kirwan were touted when Young went. Now we have no money, highly doubt they would come.

Both have said they would relish a challenge, is a Blues a challenge for them?

If they fancy their salary being paid in pork pies, than they have a deal!

 

[dullonien]

Can I do the obligatory Nick Mallett and John Kirwan suggestion?
Seems to be needed for every team who needs a coach right now.

Nick Mallett or John Kirwan should take over.

Also, Paul James will give Andrews a lesson. If he can't handle the might of Cian Healy, I dread to think of what Paul will do to him. Very tough scrummager, amongst the most underrated players in Wales. Going out on a massive limb here, but I'd have him on the Lions bench if it is only one prop replacement. Yep, I'm odd.

Nope, I'd have James on the bench as well. I'd probably expand the squad by one just to include him.

I can't see the Blues getting Mallet or Kirwan. There's no vision at the moment from Peter Thomas, so we'll probably see B&B continue and the Blues miss out on a HC place next season.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

[h=1]Cardiff Blues target new director of rugby to work above coaches[/h]

 

[dullonien]

Cardiff Blues target new director of rugby to work above coaches

It's a start I suppose, but honestly I want Baber and Burnell out, not just given new (existing) jobs! They've proved to be clueless, I don't see how a new Director will be able to change too much, unless he does everything himself. Director's should always be allowed to appoint their own coaches, but alas this is the Peter Thomas show..........

 

[Robert Prosser]

It's a start I suppose, but honestly I want Baber and Burnell out, not just given new (existing) jobs! They've proved to be clueless, I don't see how a new Director will be able to change too much, unless he does everything himself. Director's should always be allowed to appoint their own coaches, but alas this is the Peter Thomas show..........

A lot depends on who he actuallly appoints as the director of rugby really could just be a yes man, for my opinion I agree with you should get rid of both Baber and Burnell they have proved they are no good at this level.

Also as I stated earlier in this thread they have now confirmed these players are departing:

• Martyn Williams
• Paul ***o
• Maama Molitika
• Ben Blair
• Taufa'ao Filise
• Deiniol Jones
• Gethin Jenkins
• Casey Laulala
• Rhys Thomas
• Richie Rees
• John Yapp
• Dan Parks

 

[dullonien]

That's the spine of the team gone basically, especially ***o, Molitika, Filise, Jenkins and Laulala. They can thank Gatland for developing Warburton, Lloyd Williams, and Halfpenny as a fullback, which reduces the blow of Williams retiring and Blair and Rees going. Gatland started selecting Warburton as 1st choice long before the Blues did, although the quality of Warbs would have come through eventually, so being overly harsh there I know. But it was Gatland who finally shifted Halfpenny to fullback, the idiots at the Blues were persevering with Czekaj in the position! Whilst the Blues had given gametime to Lloyd, he was still deemed a youngster and not ready at the Blues until Gatland started selecting him for the Wales squad ahead of Rees. Going back further, it was also Gatland who shifted Roberts into midfield, with the Blues following suit...... it appears Gatland has had more influence on the Blues' successful players than the Blues coaches (both Young and B&B )!

Why has no-one been looking at these ageing players and developing their replacements! How long has it taken for the likes of Down, Cook and Screech to start getting regular gametime? Paterson and Pretorius were brought in to replace Molitika, granted, they were two good signings. No-one has been developed to take over from Rhys Thomas. Same goes for no. 8, although hopefully we'll be seeing more of Hamilton now. This isn't really B&B's fault, but it's a result of Young's tenure. He built a squad, but failed to develop it enough, and almost jumped ship when it was starting to sink.

 

[psychic duck]

The Cardiff Blues side that won the Amlin Challenge Cup in 2010, the Welsh regions only ever European trophy and possibly one of the best Welsh performances away from home, completely taken apart in one swoop

15. Ben Blair - Agen
14. Leigh Halfpenny
13. Casey Laulala - Munster
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Tom James
10. Ceri Sweeney*
9. Richie Rees - Edinburgh
1. Gethin Jenkins - Toulon
2. T Rhys Thomas - Wasps
3. Taufa'ao Filise - retired
4. Bradley Davies
5. Deiniol Jones - retired
6. Ma'ama Molitika - retired
7. Martyn Williams - retired
8. Xavier Rush

16. Gareth Williams - retired
17. John Yapp - Edinburgh
18. Scott Andrews
19. Paul ***o - retired
20. Sam Warburton
21. Darren Allinson - London Irish
22. Dai Flanagan - Ospreys
23. Dafydd Hewitt

*I'm surprised Ceri Sweeney wasn't on the list of departures, don't tell me he's managed to get another contract extension ... but interestingly Wikipedia it says he has signed for Russian side Krasny Yar, of course that is Wikipedia, but who knows it may have been edited by someone in the know, and he could have signed through the Kingsley Jones connection to Russia perhaps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasny_Yar_Krasnoyarsk

Cardiff Blues next season
15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. Harry Robinson
13. Gavin Evans
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Tom James
10. Jason Tovey
9. Lloyd Williams
1. Campese Ma'afu - West Harbour
2. Andy Kyriacou - Ulster
3. Scott Andrews
4. Bradley Davies
5. Lou Reed - Scarlets
6. Michael Paterson
7. Sam Warburton
8. Xavier Rush

16. Ryan Tyrrell
17. Scott Hobbs
18. Benoît Bourrust
19. James Down
20. Andries Pretorius
21. Rob Lewis - London Welsh*
22. Ceri Sweeney ?
23. Dafydd Hewitt

*rumoured signing according to this site
http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s170.htm?221,13203775

looks much much weaker I'm afraid, that bench looks pretty poor, and the front row as well is dreadful

 

[lucky number 7]

The Cardiff Blues side that won the Amlin Challenge Cup in 2010, the Welsh regions only ever European trophy and possibly one of the best Welsh performances away from home, completely taken apart in one swoop

15. Ben Blair - Agen
14. Leigh Halfpenny
13. Casey Laulala - Munster
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Tom James
10. Ceri Sweeney*
9. Richie Rees - Edinburgh
1. Gethin Jenkins - Toulon
2. T Rhys Thomas - Wasps
3. Taufa'ao Filise - retired
4. Bradley Davies
5. Deiniol Jones - retired
6. Ma'ama Molitika - retired
7. Martyn Williams - retired
8. Xavier Rush

16. Gareth Williams - retired
17. John Yapp - Edinburgh
18. Scott Andrews
19. Paul ***o - retired
20. Sam Warburton
21. Darren Allinson - London Irish
22. Dai Flanagan - Ospreys
23. Dafydd Hewitt

*I'm surprised Ceri Sweeney wasn't on the list of departures, don't tell me he's managed to get another contract extension ... but interestingly Wikipedia it says he has signed for Russian side Krasny Yar, of course that is Wikipedia, but who knows it may have been edited by someone in the know, and he could have signed through the Kingsley Jones connection to Russia perhaps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasny_Yar_Krasnoyarsk

Cardiff Blues next season
15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. Harry Robinson
13. Gavin Evans
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Tom James
10. Jason Tovey
9. Lloyd Williams
1. Campese Ma'afu - West Harbour
2. Andy Kyriacou - Ulster
3. Scott Andrews
4. Bradley Davies
5. Lou Reed - Scarlets
6. Michael Paterson
7. Sam Warburton
8. Xavier Rush

16. Ryan Tyrrell
17. Scott Hobbs
18. Benoît Bourrust
19. James Down
20. Andries Pretorius
21. Rob Lewis - London Welsh*
22. Ceri Sweeney ?
23. Dafydd Hewitt

*rumoured signing according to this site
http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s170.htm?221,13203775

looks much much weaker I'm afraid, that bench looks pretty poor, and the front row as well is dreadful

Jesus mate you're right these coaches are hopeless...