Canada vs. Fiji. Pacific Nations Cup 05/06/2013

[LittleGuy]

Canada vs. Fiji. Pacific Nations Cup 05/06/2013 6:00 p.m. EDT(3:00 p.m. PDT) @ Twin Elm Rugby Park: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

Referee: JP Doyle(Ireland)

Good news for Canadian, Fijian and neutral fans as the game will be broadcast three hours delayed on Sportsnet World, it will also be streamed on rugbycanada.ca with both English and French commentary available, the irb.com stream for international viewers, Cable 22 in Ottawa will be providing a tape delayed version to local area residents.

The PNC continues for Canada and Fiji with a match up on Wednesday in Ottawa, both teams will be looking to keep their perfect records so far intact, as well as trying to maintain their IRB rankings positions as the two have been flipping spots 13 and 14 for several weeks.

The Canadian lineup has been announced and Kieran Crowley has had to make some changes both out of neccessity and due to the short rest before the Tonga game. Sinclair has joined the team and is on the bench, while Pritchard is being rested till Saturday's game as he just got healthy with Bedford only two weeks ago. Interesting CT pairing but after last weeks disaster there I welcome the changes.


Canada

#1 - Andrew Tiedemann, (Castaway Wanderers/Prairie Wolf Pack) St. Albert, AB
#2 - Ryan Hamilton, (Capilano RFC/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
#3 - Jason Marshall, (Atlantique Stade Rochelais/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
#4 - Jon Phelan, (Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue/Atlantic Rock) Montreal, QC
#5 - Tyler Hotson, (London Scottish RFC) Vancouver, BC
#6 - Tyler Ardron, (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues) Lakefield, ON
#7 - Nanyak Dala, (Castaway Wanderers RFC/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saskatoon, SK
#8 - Aaron Carpenter, Captain, (Cornish Pirates) Brantford, ON
#9 - Phil Mack, (UVIC Vikes/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
#10 - Liam Underwood, (Queens University/Ontario Blues) Toronto, ON
#11 - Taylor Paris, (SU Agen Lot-et-Garonne) Barrie, ON
#12 - Harry Jones, (Capilano RFC/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
#13 - Ciaran Hearn, (Castaway Wanderers/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay, NL
#14 - Matt Evans, (Cornish Pirates) Maple Bay, BC
#15 - Connor Braid, (Doncaster Knights RFC/BC Bears) Victoria, BC

Bench

#16 - Ray Barkwill, (Niagara Wasps RFC/Ontario Blues) Niagara Falls, ON
#17 - Hubert Buydens, (Saskatoon Wild Oats/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saskatoon, SK
#18 - Tom Dolezel, (London St. George's/Ontario Blues) London, ON
#19 - Jebb Sinclair, (London Irish) Fredericton, NB
#20 - John Moonlight, (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues) Pickering, ON
#21 - Sean White, (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
#22 - Nathan Hirayama, (UVIC Vikes/BC Bears), Richmond, BC
#23 - Nick Blevins, (Calgary Hornets, Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB


Fiji

#1 - Jerry Yanuyanutawa (London Irish)
#2 - TUAPATI TALEIMAITOGA (Southland)
#3 - Setefano Somoca (Sigatoka, Nadroga)
#4 - Pisa Ratuniyarawa (Mahurangi)
#5 - Wame Lewaravu (Stade Montois)
#6 - Apisai Naikatini (Toyota Verblitz)
#7 - Mala Ravulo (North Harbour)
#8 - Akapusi Qera (C) (Gloucester Rugby)
#9 - Nemia Kenatale (Southland)
#10 - Setareki Koroilagilagi (Army)
#11 - Aisea Natoga (Tuva)
#12 - Leone Tabuarua (Fire)
#13 - Nemani Nadolo (NEC Green Rockets)
#14 - Adriu Delai (Stade Rodez Aveyron)
#15 - Simeli Koniferedi (King Country)

Bench

#16 - Viliame Veikoso (Navoci)
#17 - Manasa Saulo (Navy)
#18 - Campese Ma'afu (Cardiff Blues)
#19 - Iliesa Ratuva (Nadroga)
#20 - Samuel Matavesi (Plymouth Albion)
#21 - Aporosa Kenatale (Vatukoula)
#22 - Jiuta Lutumailagi (Nadroga)
#23 - Iliesa Salusalu (Namosi)

 

[psychic duck]

When are Canada actually going to get a proper game in this PNC?

The USA match was an experimental side, and this remains an experimental side as they don't want to tire their side out before the Ireland game.

Meanwhile Fiji are missing Talei, Matawalu and Bobo due to visa issues (unluckily for them all who happen to be three of their best players and were on great form last weekend) and some unknowns are called up ahead. So they won't be as strong with the quick turnaround and missing players as they were for the Japan game either.

The IRB's poor schedule starting to show now. According to the article it would seem that those three players could have been available had this not been a midweek game. http://fijilive.com/sports/news/2013/06/flying-fijians-depart-without-trio/31922.Fijilive

 

[LittleGuy]

When are Canada actually going to get a proper game in this PNC?

The USA match was an experimental side, and this remains an experimental side as they don't want to tire their side out before the Ireland game.

Meanwhile Fiji are missing Talei, Matawalu and Bobo due to visa issues (unluckily for them all who happen to be three of their best players and were on great form last weekend) and some unknowns are called up ahead. So they won't be as strong with the quick turnaround and missing players as they were for the Japan game either.

The IRB's poor schedule starting to show now. According to the article it would seem that those three players could have been available had this not been a midweek game. http://fijilive.com/sports/news/2013/06/flying-fijians-depart-without-trio/31922.Fijilive

My guess is the Tonga side will be our strongest side we field in the PNC we are also decimated by injuries at the moment, especially in the backs. The schedule is the biggest factor though, it's just absurd the lask of rest time available.

Thank you for the Fiji link, I'll edit in the line up.

 

[rusty_lock]

Holy, that is one experimental line up in the backs. Injuries definitely playing a role here. I'll be interested to see how Jones goes at centre as I've not seen him play there. He has fantastic pace.

 

[LittleGuy]

The Fijian lineup and referee, have been added to the first post of the thread.

 

[psychic duck]

Just wanted to point out that there are some errors in that Fiji lineup. Netani Talei isn't playing hooker for Fiji and he is also Man of Gwent now not Edinburgh.

 

[LittleGuy]

Just wanted to point out that there are some errors in that Fiji lineup. Netani Talei isn't playing hooker for Fiji and he is also Man of Gwent now not Edinburgh.

I'll edit them in I got the lineup off of the IRB website so maybe there was an error in their list(I know they've messed up clubs before but an entire player seems odd.)

 

[LittleGuy]

Small change for Canadian fans for some reason Sportsnet World(even though they have nothing else on then) are showing the game three hours delayed, so not until 9:00 p.m. EDT, or 6:00 p.m. PDT.

Edit: Not sure if I'm going to watch the stream or the tape delayed TV broadcast though I am leaning latter, my ISP tends to be pretty poor from around 5-8 pm.(I think it's everyone going on net after work and school here). Plus the usual stream issues and the like, so I might not be able to give my thoughts until around 11 p.m. on the game.

 

[Muzzy]

Man missed the first 20mins coz the stream had the wrong time.

Fiji 11 Canada 10 at Half Time

OMFG the commentators think the hooker really is Talei lol, they're talking about his versatility to play number 8 last week and now hooker smh

 

[dudeabides]

Congrats Canadian fans, heck of a game. You guys currently sit atop this:

http://www.irb.com/pacificnationscup/standings/index.html

USA not in last!

 

[psychic duck]

OMFG the commentators think the hooker really is Talei lol, they're talking about his versatility to play number 8 last week and now hooker smh

Yes, obviously they were fooled by the teamsheet. Shows how much some of these commentators actually know about rugby. They obviously just read of a fact sheet. Anybody who knew anything about Fiji rugby would know Netani Talei wouldn't play hooker, and also the guy playing hooker didn't look a bit like him.

Nice win for Canada, but as discussed, this Fiji team was always going to find this match difficult playing jetlagged and without much rest or adaptation time. Add to that three of their top players were left behind in Fiji and they weren't as strong as Japan. Canada weren't full strength either, so this was a poor indication of which team is actually better. But it was a much better game for the neutral than that frankly terrible Canada USA one.

By the way, Harry Jones showed some pace but was clearly offside for that try. Also what an awful finish by Taylor Paris, how he didn't score that is beyond me. Final point is Nemani Nadolo, he is alongside Banahan perhaps the biggest back out there, but like Banahan, offloading is not something he is particularly good at. Nadolo makes metres carrying, but has weaknesses and his offload was absolutely terrible and created a Canada try.

As I said before though, anybodt can beat anybody really in the PNC. Tonga match will be by far the toughest match for Canada with the little rest, and Tonga rested up. Japan against Canada will be a lottery with both sides coming into it after little rest from Wales/Ireland matches.

My predictions, mostly based on just guessing the build ups each side have:
Tonga 3 wins (win vs Canada with extra rest than them, lose vs USA with travel and away disadvantage taking effect, win vs Fiji with added rest)
Fiji 3 wins (win vs USA with them having short turnaround, lose vs Tonga with 3 day turnaround)
Canada 2 wins (lose vs more rested Tonga after a 3 day turnaround, lose vs Japan in a 50/50 toss up which I gave to Japan purely on home advantage and travel effects)
Japan 2 wins (win vs Canada reasons above, win vs USA as the Eagles face a more physically demanding match 3 days earlier against Fiji)
USA 1 win (win vs Tonga with home advantage, lose vs Fiji with short turnaround, lose vs Japan after physical match with Fiji and away disadvantage)

 

[LittleGuy]

A thrilling if a little sloppy in parts, but wow very entertaining. A game Canada should have won by a lot more than they did if not for some atrocious goal kicking and a horrible finish by Paris to a fantastic run. Full credit to Fiji who looked done for a number of times in the game they always fought back and had a number of brilliant line breaks. They certainly had a better finishing quality than Canada today. Other notes, broadcast was a massive improvement this is why the games always need to be on TV, commentary was OK, I've certainly heard much worse from the local streams we've had to put up with. Turnout was solid over 4,500 in attendance and the conditions and facility were both better than in Edmonton.

Some mixed performances from Canada today even individual players had brilliant moments and pants on head parts. The forwards were generally solid, the scrum did well and the lineout made a number of steals (on a personal note local boy Ray Barkwill crossing the line had me fist pumping). Dala did very well as captain when Carpenter came off, I thought Hotson quietly had a great game and Sinclair is so much more effective at #8 than at Lock. Phil Mack was brilliant and was Man of the Match, while Underwood did well I think especially for his first ever start.

In the backline, Hearn was a dynamo all over the field, he has really upped his workrate was great in defence and made some oppourtunites, he did miss a couple of penalty goals but both were from some distance. Evans did well as well I thought, made some smart plays and generally made all his tackles, should be a starter ongoing. Paris really hurt his game through that botched try, but wasn't awful aside from that, while I think Jones was the opposite, did well to get his try but I didn't think he was very effective aside from that. Braid was a big dissapointment today and when Pritchard enters the lineup at FB it will be a big upgrade, goal kicking was poor from Connor, and he took some poor angles while chasing, perhaps Braid can move to FH where he has generally been more effective for Canada.

Scoreline

Canada 20-18 Fiji (10-11 at half)

Canada

Tries:Aaron Carpenter, Harry Jones, Ray Barkwill
Conversion: Connor Braid 1(3)
Penalties: Connor Braid 1(2) Ciaran Hearn 0(2)


Fiji

Tries:Nemani Nadolo, Akapusi Qera
Conversion: Jiuta Lutumailagi 1(1) Setareki Koroilagilag 0(1)
Penalties: Setareki Koroilagilag 2(2)

Attendance 4,548

 

[Muzzy]

Yes, obviously they were fooled by the teamsheet. Shows how much some of these commentators actually know about rugby. They obviously just read of a fact sheet. Anybody who knew anything about Fiji rugby would know Netani Talei wouldn't play hooker, and also the guy playing hooker didn't look a bit like him.

Nice win for Canada, but as discussed, this Fiji team was always going to find this match difficult playing jetlagged and without much rest or adaptation time. Add to that three of their top players were left behind in Fiji and they weren't as strong as Japan. Canada weren't full strength either, so this was a poor indication of which team is actually better. But it was a much better game for the neutral than that frankly terrible Canada USA one.

By the way, Harry Jones showed some pace but was clearly offside for that try. Also what an awful finish by Taylor Paris, how he didn't score that is beyond me. Final point is Nemani Nadolo, he is alongside Banahan perhaps the biggest back out there, but like Banahan, offloading is not something he is particularly good at. Nadolo makes metres carrying, but has weaknesses and his offload was absolutely terrible and created a Canada try.

As I said before though, anybodt can beat anybody really in the PNC. Tonga match will be by far the toughest match for Canada with the little rest, and Tonga rested up. Japan against Canada will be a lottery with both sides coming into it after little rest from Wales/Ireland matches.

My predictions, mostly based on just guessing the build ups each side have:
Tonga 3 wins (win vs Canada with extra rest than them, lose vs USA with travel and away disadvantage taking effect, win vs Fiji with added rest)
Fiji 3 wins (win vs USA with them having short turnaround, lose vs Tonga with 3 day turnaround)
Canada 2 wins (lose vs more rested Tonga after a 3 day turnaround, lose vs Japan in a 50/50 toss up which I gave to Japan purely on home advantage and travel effects)
Japan 2 wins (win vs Canada reasons above, win vs USA as the Eagles face a more physically demanding match 3 days earlier against Fiji)
USA 1 win (win vs Tonga with home advantage, lose vs Fiji with short turnaround, lose vs Japan after physical match with Fiji and away disadvantage)

Yeah I was really surprised Willie Lose of all people should know who Talei is he's commentated a lot of games he's played in lol

Canada screwed up two tries but it was also a show of Fiji's determination in defence, I mean when that canadian player made that big run Fiji could have given up but they kept chasing and made him knock it on over the line. Same with Canada's first botched try, that was a good show of desperate defence by Fiji. And yeah that 2nd Canada try was offside, there were touch judges and referee there, that's poor for them on missing something like that.

I missed the first 20mins of the game, but I saw Fiji's set pieces had really improved until the last 20 mins of the game. Fiji were dominating in the scrums and winning all their lineouts until the last 20 mins, maybe it was coz Canada made changes in their front row, could have also been when Fiji brought on Ma'afu. The same thing happened against Japan when Ma'afu came on Fiji had gone from a dominating scrum to being dominated. Once Fiji's set pieces had gone to ****, there was little they could do, you can't do much when you can't win your own line outs and scrums. I felt like Fiji were the more threatening team for most of the game, but made too many crucial mistakes, they lost the ball and got isolated too many times, hopefully they'll learn from this and get better. I liked that Jiuta Lutumailagi at first five when he came on. Credit to Canada they are a good team and beating bigger teams is nothing new for them, I remember when they beat Scotland at home, they should have beat fiji at the 2007 world cup but were robbed by a bad video ref decision and they beat Tonga in the 2011 world cup, the same tongan team that beat France. So them beating Fiji isn't a surprise to me

Can't wait to see the replay of Qera's hit lol that was one of the biggest hits I've seen in a long time, Dala was down for about 5 mins

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I was at the game in Ottawa so I will give my general comments on the game. From my perspective Canada were the better team for much of the game and I felt the score flattered Fiji a little bit, we were 2 for 7 at the kicking tee for one thing. Fiji did what everyone knew they were going to do which was run the ball and run it hard but Canada fronted up on defence very well. Man of the match for me was Nanyak Dala, the guy was an angry little ant and was all over the field tackling, stealing ball and getting into the rucks.

I saw the opposite of what some of you saw with the Canadian backs, I thought they were dangerous everytime they had ball in hand and they fronted up on defence and put the tackles and work in. One moment in particular stands out for me was when Nadolo broke the Canadian line and broke a number of tackles, Braid came across and made a beautiful tackle on his legs for what surely would have been a try. Also, Braid and Evans made some excellent placed kicks from ball in hand which really put Fiji on the backfoot and even set up a nifty try.

On Taylor Paris failing to score that try. Fiji had some excellent coverage and both the Wing and the Fullback did what they were supposed to do by coming across the field and cutting off his running lanes so not sure what it looked like on TV but Fiji did well covering him and cutting off his lanes.

I don't buy the whole Fiji was jetlagged so they didn't win line. They were in the game and they were running hard at the Canadian line delivering crushing hits and playing with flair, they just didn't really play that intelligently. One moment that stands out in particular for me was the charge-down by Marshall which almost led to another Canadian try, Fiji were attacking from their own try-zone which I didn't think was a particularly smart thing to do even though they were down on the scoreboard but they still had around 15min of time on the clock.

I am going to be at the game in Kingston this weekend and I will make sure to give you guys a good synopsis.

 

[LittleGuy]

I was at the game in Ottawa so I will give my general comments on the game. From my perspective Canada were the better team for much of the game and I felt the score flattered Fiji a little bit, we were 2 for 7 at the kicking tee for one thing. Fiji did what everyone knew they were going to do which was run the ball and run it hard but Canada fronted up on defence very well. Man of the match for me was Nanyak Dala, the guy was an angry little ant and was all over the field tackling, stealing ball and getting into the rucks.

I saw the opposite of what some of you saw with the Canadian backs, I thought they were dangerous everytime they had ball in hand and they fronted up on defence and put the tackles and work in. One moment in particular stands out for me was when Nadolo broke the Canadian line and broke a number of tackles, Braid came across and made a beautiful tackle on his legs for what surely would have been a try. Also, Braid and Evans made some excellent placed kicks from ball in hand which really put Fiji on the backfoot and even set up a nifty try.

On Taylor Paris failing to score that try. Fiji had some excellent coverage and both the Wing and the Fullback did what they were supposed to do by coming across the field and cutting off his running lanes so not sure what it looked like on TV but Fiji did well covering him and cutting off his lanes.

I don't buy the whole Fiji was jetlagged so they didn't win line. They were in the game and they were running hard at the Canadian line delivering crushing hits and playing with flair, they just didn't really play that intelligently. One moment that stands out in particular for me was the charge-down by Marshall which almost led to another Canadian try, Fiji were attacking from their own try-zone which I didn't think was a particularly smart thing to do even though they were down on the scoreboard but they still had around 15min of time on the clock.

I am going to be at the game in Kingston this weekend and I will make sure to give you guys a good synopsis.

It kind of looked on TV like A) He didn't think he could make it to the corner because he was gassed from the sprint, understandable and in which case he made the right choice or, B ) He wanted to centre up the conversion by getting close to the posts, in which case it was a poor decision even though Braid was having an off day with the boot. The angles the Fijian defenders were taking may have been hard to see from the camera angle we had available to us at home.

Edit: I really didn't think the backs were that bad either but I'm not sure if you were addressing me, Psychic or Muzzy there since it wasn't clear. I thought Hearn and Evans were excellent to good, Paris was decent(especially after having another look at the try attempt). Jones had moments of brilliance and some poor moments, though I'll stand by the fact that I thought Braid wasn't that great, I do remember that try saving tackle but he was burned a couple of times as well, particularly on Nadolo's try he took an awful angle in approach.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

It kind of looked on TV like A) He didn't think he could make it to the corner because he was gassed from the sprint, understandable and in which case he made the right choice or, B ) He wanted to centre up the conversion by getting close to the posts, in which case it was a poor decision even though Braid was having an off day with the boot. The angles the Fijian defenders were taking may have been hard to see from the camera angle we had available to us at home.

Edit: I really didn't think the backs were that bad either but I'm not sure if you were addressing me, Psychic or Muzzy there since it wasn't clear. I thought Hearn and Evans were excellent to good, Paris was decent(especially after having another look at the try attempt). Jones had moments of brilliance and some poor moments, though I'll stand by the fact that I thought Braid wasn't that great, I do remember that try saving tackle but he was burned a couple of times as well, particularly on Nadolo's try he took an awful angle in approach.

I wasn't addressing anyone in particular just giving my general view of how I saw the match. Paris couldn't go outside so he tried to cut back in but like I said the Fijians did well to come across the field and cover him. On Baird I guess I would concur that he didn't have his best game and he is definitely capable of more but he wasn't bad either. I was more just disappointed with our poor kicking. Two of the converts were what I would consider to be fairly easy.

 

[LittleGuy]

I wasn't addressing anyone in particular just giving my general view of how I saw the match. Paris couldn't go outside so he tried to cut back in but like I said the Fijians did well to come across the field and cover him. On Baird I guess I would concur that he didn't have his best game and he is definitely capable of more but he wasn't bad either. I was more just disappointed with our poor kicking. Two of the converts were what I would consider to be fairly easy.

The link to the full match is here(this is an offical archive for those wondering) and I ahd a look at the Paris missed try and I definately see what you were saying, it looks like the Fijians have cut off the anlge fairly well, and they also made a great tackle to pop the ball lose.

 

[psychic duck]

I don't buy the whole Fiji was jetlagged so they didn't win line. They were in the game and they were running hard at the Canadian line delivering crushing hits and playing with flair, they just didn't really play that intelligently. One moment that stands out in particular for me was the charge-down by Marshall which almost led to another Canadian try, Fiji were attacking from their own try-zone which I didn't think was a particularly smart thing to do even though they were down on the scoreboard but they still had around 15min of time on the clock.

So you're saying that flying all the way from Fiji to Eastern Canada (a very far away timezone) with just 3 days full rest and leaving 3 top players behind didn't have an effect and have nothing to do with the match?

To be honest, this wasn't the best Canada performance. They got lucky with a clear offside try. And another one was from a terrible offload by Nadolo than good play by Canada. And they weren't clinical either in securing the match.

Fortunately they have a few players to add back into that side to improve it, but I wouldn't get carried away with the result as it was a match marred by IRB stupid scheduling and there are plenty of factors that were against Fiji. In fact I would expect that the proper Canada side with a few players back would win that comfortably given the circumstances Fiji were in.

 

[CDN_Rugby]

If anyone wants a look, the Province (as is the case after every test) published their player rankings: http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/06/06/rugby-canada-vs-fiji-canadian-player-ratings/ ... I don't really agree with all the numbers, but it's an interesting read anyway.

Overall I thought Canada played well, but here are a few things I noticed:

- Tiedemann looked out of shape and was getting routinely beaten at scrum time. It shouldn't be a shock that things turned massively when Buydens and Barkwill came on. They are obviously the first choice 1 and 2 right now.
- Dala and Ardron looked really good. When you throw in Moonlight, Kleeberger, Sinclair, and Carpenter, Canada has a really good looking backrow at the moment.
- Kicking was an obvious problem. We need to think long and hard about life after Pritchard as I'm not sure I have all the confidence in the world in the kicking abilities of Hearn and Braid.
- Phelan, I like. He needs to put on some muscle though, he's probably not even 105 kg's.
- Mack was sensational.
- Defence, as has been the case since Griffiths became part of the setup, was again good.
- Thankfully all traces of Ric Suggit have been purged from this team.

 

[rusty_lock]

definitely agree that Buydens has to be first choice at loosehead. Also its great that the locking stocks have impoved enough that Sinclair can actually play in position. I have been a huge Mack backer and am ecstatic that he was so good.

I think folks are a little harsh on Braid. While his goal kicking was shocking I thought the rest of his game was pretty good. Taylor Paris definitely hurt his chances of further selection this summer with that game but Hearn did the opposite. Underwood and Jones were better than expected especially Underwood. The Fijians ran pretty hard at that 10-12 channel and they tackled well. Underwood had good vision and made good decisions.

It seemed to me that the Fijians lacked any real plan. It was all about crash ball, crash ball, go wide. When that failed, they really had no other ideas. I know that they are big strong team and they want to play to that strength but when a little bit of tactical kicking was in order there was no vision to make that happen. Canada will not be so lucky against Tonga I suspect. Fortunately, Pritch is back at 15 so the quality of the kicking game just went up exponetially