All Blacks 2021-2024 Thread

[Kiwiwomble]

We all know this current NZRU board is pretty incompetent, so it's hardly a surprise they have dug such a big hole for themselves - they didn't have a choice but review Foster after the UK Tour, not only did we lose our last two tests, but we were bloody appalling in both of them, lack of direction & tactics etc, the latter clearly a huge concern... Foster would have to be the worst ABs coach I have ever seen.

Got a link, can't find anything about another review

 

[NZbloke]

'We support Foster': NZR backs under fire coach as ABs season review looms

NZ Rugby confirmed a review of the All Blacks season is now underway.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Here's a piece from the link I posted :

nzherald.co.nz : Lendrum confirmed a review of the All Blacks season is now underway, with both team and New Zealand Rugby to take a close look at the All Blacks successes and failures in 2021.
Lendrum said the review will be finalized early next year, before the start of Super Rugby Pacific in February



It's utterLy ridiculous that we have to wait until just before the Super Rugby Pacific Comps starts to know the result of the review... so by stuffing around so much the NZRU are obviously going to keep him as coach through to the 2023 WRC, unbelievable !

 

[NZbloke]

Thought this review would turn into an absolute farce - NZRU just don't want to admit they've created a real clusterfuck by appointing Foster & Plumtree as head & assistant coaches.
Schmidt has good rugby nous, if we do well in the 2023 RWC it will be because of his input, won't have much to do with the other two clowns... anyway, anyone with good rugby sense should be able to analyse the areas where the ABs are executing very poorly & how to fix those areas, also tactics.

Joe Schmidt to join All Blacks as Independent Selector

One of New Zealand’s leading coaches, former Ireland coach Joe Schmidt, is to replace former All Black Grant Fox as the All Blacks Independent Selector.

www.allblacks.com

 

[Bada-Bing!]

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Thought this review would turn into an absolute farce - NZRU just don't want to admit they've created a real clusterfuck by appointing Foster & Plumtree as head & assistant coaches.
Schmidt has good rugby nous, if we do well in the 2023 RWC it will be because of his input, won't have much to do with the other two clowns... anyway, anyone with good rugby sense should be able to analyse the areas where the ABs are executing very poorly & how to fix those areas, also tactics.

Joe Schmidt to join All Blacks as Independent Selector

One of New Zealand’s leading coaches, former Ireland coach Joe Schmidt, is to replace former All Black Grant Fox as the All Blacks Independent Selector.

www.allblacks.com

You've completely misunderstood what's going on here. This is just a standard end of year performance review. Firing people isn't on the cards. It's about assessing performance and agreeing what areas the employee needs to work on. It happens at the end of every year.

 

[NZbloke]

You've completely misunderstood what's going on here. This is just a standard end of year performance review. Firing people isn't on the cards. It's about assessing performance and agreeing what areas the employee needs to work on. It happens at the end of every year.

Come on, this review should be about whether Foster keeps his job or not - the NZRU have said Foster's job is safe, yet they're using the rest of his coaching staff as bloody scapegoats, basically saying their jobs are at risk, the buck stops with the coach, as should always be the case... it's not so much that we lost our last two matches, it's really about how very badly we performed in them, didn't learn at all from the loss to Ireland, just played the same thoughtless way against France too.

Fox as a former number 10 never really added much at all tactically kicking wise under Hansen & now Foster, so not a loss with him going... find it ludicrous that Schmidt isn't going to replace Fox until after the Ireland tests next year in NZ, get him in there asap, he's the only one that has good rugby sense compared to all the other clowns on the coaching staff.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

With the Japanese league having bigger wallets to pinch NZ internationals, South African packs leaving Super Rugby and most of the NH Tier1s getting their act together in terms of player development due to the end of 3 year residency I think the decline of the consistently massively overachieving NZ rugby was always on the cards. I was expecting it for around 2023, but Foster does seem to be accelerating the dip in form.

An assistant coach of 7 years always seemed a risky bet if you rated the head coach. How can you possibly evaluate the ability of an assistant coach who is only partly responsible for coaching decisions and ultimately doesn't make the big calls? I mean it seemed to work for Ireland twice (Schmidt and Farrell), but overall this must be very difficult to do.

Especially compared to picking a Robertson, Joseph, Gatland, Rennie, Cotter or Schmidt. An absolute embarrassment of coaching riches at the top level and/or with a history of overacheiving, often with inferior packs. None of them too old either.

Hopefully the new SR gives Australasian punters what they want and brings in more TV money from Australia, otherwise I'd have NZ outside my world top 4 by RWC 2027.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Come on, this review should be about whether Foster keeps his job or not - the NZRU have said Foster's job is safe, yet they're using the rest of his coaching staff as bloody scapegoats, basically saying their jobs are at risk, the buck stops with the coach, as should always be the case... it's not so much that we lost our last two matches, it's really about how very badly we performed in them, didn't learn at all from the loss to Ireland, just played the same thoughtless way against France too.

Fox as a former number 10 never really added much at all tactically kicking wise under Hansen & now Foster, so not a loss with him going... find it ludicrous that Schmidt isn't going to replace Fox until after the Ireland tests next year in NZ, get him in there asap, he's the only one that has good rugby sense compared to all the other clowns on the coaching staff.

well foster hasn't proved himself as either a head coach or an assistant coach, that I agree on, but don't you think the tactics and technical stuff has been awry? In other words, the assistants have not been very good. From What I've heard foster has done a lot of good stuff in terms of managing the group and the culture, yes he clearly hasn't prepared them to perform under pressure so I'm not saying it's all good, but what evidence of any good has their been of the assistants?

Also, Schmidt didn't want to start until after the ireland games, and he also doesn't want to be a head coach.

 

[NZbloke]

well foster hasn't proved himself as either a head coach or an assistant coach, that I agree on, but don't you think the tactics and technical stuff has been awry? In other words, the assistants have not been very good. From What I've heard foster has done a lot of good stuff in terms of managing the group and the culture, yes he clearly hasn't prepared them to perform under pressure so I'm not saying it's all good, but what evidence of any good has their been of the assistants?

Also, Schmidt didn't want to start until after the ireland games, and he also doesn't want to be a head coach.

Yeah, the assistants have been very poor, but Foster has had plenty of time as head coach too, but just doesn't have the goods either - can't blame the assistants when the head coach is incompetent anyway... the assistants can come up with different ideas, but it's the head coach that has the final say & should have the insight to see whether a tactic would be any good to be used or not.
Foster doesn't have the man management skills to get the best out of each individual as well, which is a vital asset as a head coach.

Heard Schmidt didn't want to be a head coach again... it's a bit strange he doesn't want to start until after the Ireland matches, the sooner he gets involved the better.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

No 2022 ABs thread yet, so out here.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

ABs 12 problem discussed.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

No 2022 ABs thread yet, so out here.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

ABs 12 problem discussed.

im not against it, we have jordan to play 15

 

[Bada-Bing!]

im not against it, we have jordan to play 15

Yeh as well as settling on a consistent midfield partnership. I recall Will Greenwood, who knows a thing of two of playing 12 and centre, commented that Goodhue and ALB were just too similar when they played and lack the point of difference to complement each other. Both naturally going for the outside shoulder.

I recall ABs have some other issues to sort out.
The platform up front, which got beaten up v Ireland and France last November:

T'ungasfasi to come in at tight head?
Bower to come in at loosehead now Moody is out for the season/year? Don't know too much about De Groot, but covers the bench?
Combo on the second row - Barrett/Retallick?
Back row combo - still not a fan of Ardie at 8. Papalii never going to get a look in at 7, with Cane as captain so he's challenging Akira for 6?

But I think for the ABs it does come down to now playing a settled team as JK argues. That first pool game v France could be pivotal.

Looking forward to the Ireland June matches.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Yeh as well as settling on a consistent midfield partnership. I recall Will Greenwood, who knows a thing of two of playing 12 and centre, commented that Goodhue and ALB were just too similar when they played and lack the point of difference to complement each other. Both naturally going for the outside shoulder.

I recall ABs have some other issues to sort out.
The platform up front, which got beaten up v Ireland and France last November:

T'ungasfasi to come in at tight head?
Bower to come in at loosehead now Moody is out for the season/year? Don't know too much about De Groot, but covers the bench?
Combo on the second row - Barrett/Retallick?
Back row combo - still not a fan of Ardie at 8. Papalii never going to get a look in at 7, with Cane as captain so he's challenging Akira for 6?

But I think for the ABs it does come down to now playing a settled team as JK argues. That first pool game v France could be pivotal.

Looking forward to the Ireland June matches.

theyre also both injury prone

the forwards is interesting, yeah, in general the didn't front up...except for 25 mins in the second half of the french game where we ran all over them, thats why i think our problem us with the coach...not the talent, we should be looking at that and trying to replicate...distill into more of a complete game plan

I would also look at bolters, personally i think we're too close to the next RWC to really bed in some of these combos....so we should result to guys on pure form, there are a few guys putting their hand up in super rugby....but you know what they say, sometimes harder to get out of the AB's than in

 

[Bada-Bing!]

 

[Umaga's Witness]

@Kiwiwomble as the thread starter, I wonder if you are able to edit the tile of the thread to all blacks 2021/22?

Was just reading some articles in all blacks.com that give some taste of what we might see in terms of selection.

Foster says he isn't excited about jordies move to 12, no surprises there but I had hoped he would have become more flexible in his thinking.

Foster says their focus will be on passing skills, but he also said they'd have to think about the length of their passes as we'd been getting caught out with our long passes. Not sure whether the latter point affects selection or not. He also said of rts that he was tracking well but they were hopping to see more of his passing and kicking game.

He also said rieko had shown last year that he is a centre, not just a wing trying to play centre, and that he had been playing well this season.

So what does that mean?

My guess is goodhue starts at 12 with ione at centre.

Will be interesting to watch the passing of rts and tupaea in these finals games.

Havili to me is a very good player but I personally don't see him forming a good combo with any of our 13 options (with the possible exception of an umaga jensen, but I don't think they will be considered). However, if the focus is on passing, you'd have to say havili is in the mix. Ennor too.

Foster hasn't said anything about needing someone to make gainline (unless I forgot, I did read these articles yesterday), like the rest of the world has been thinking we need.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

One thing I've found interesting after watching Leinster and Ireland over the last few years is that New Zealand's reaction to losing to Ireland is the exact opposite of what has worked for teams that have beaten Leinster or Ireland.

After losing to Ireland in 2018 we reacted by saying we needed more mobile forwards, particularly props, and ended up dropping franks for this reason. Meanwhile we've seen england, france, and La Rochelle (twice) beat Ireland or Leinster by bullying them with big players many of whom are not mobile , like Skelton and other Skelton-esque players. And now Karl is going overseas presumably because his lack of mobility is seen as unacceptable after our last loss to Ireland.

Going in the direction of what had actually worked against Ireland and Leinster in the last few years (ignoring the World Cup quarterfinal because we can't rely on them to make that many basic errors), if I was going to pick a 23 for the sole purpose of beating Ireland it would look something like this

De groot
Taukeiaho
Laulala
Romano
Retallick
Frizell
Savea
Sowakula
Fakatava
Barrett
Faingaanuku
Tupaea
Umaga jensen
Ione
Jordie

Williams
Aumua
Ofa
Whitelock
A ione
Smith
Mounga
Jordan

 

[Kiwiwomble]

One thing I've found interesting after watching Leinster and Ireland over the last few years is that New Zealand's reaction to losing to Ireland is the exact opposite of what has worked for teams that have beaten Leinster or Ireland.

After losing to Ireland in 2018 we reacted by saying we needed more mobile forwards, particularly props, and ended up dropping franks for this reason. Meanwhile we've seen england, france, and La Rochelle (twice) beat Ireland or Leinster by bullying them with big players many of whom are not mobile , like Skelton and other Skelton-esque players. And now Karl is going overseas presumably because his lack of mobility is seen as unacceptable after our last loss to Ireland.

Going in the direction of what had actually worked against Ireland and Leinster in the last few years (ignoring the World Cup quarterfinal because we can't rely on them to make that many basic errors), if I was going to pick a 23 for the sole purpose of beating Ireland it would look something like this

De groot
Taukeiaho
Laulala
Romano
Retallick
Frizell
Savea
Sowakula
Fakatava
Barrett
Faingaanuku
Tupaea
Umaga jensen
Ione
Jordie

Williams
Aumua
Ofa
Whitelock
A ione
Smith
Mounga
Jordan

yeah, its a worry...ask almost any other level of rugby and they all agree...stable platform, dominant scrum and lineout...allows your backs and loosies to be mobile...through time and space....we've just tried to make everyone "physically" mobile...but then hamstrung them by asking them to do it behind the advantage line or on the back foot or broken play....its ******* stupid

 

[Bada-Bing!]

 

[Umaga's Witness]

There are a few places that are debatable, but I can't really see any surprise calls. A possible surprise could be Peter umaga jensen, since he has barely played this season but we are light on centres and he brings a hard running style that we need but with good skill set and strong defence. Ione and goodhue will be there , then do they pick leicester as a 13 option? Or ennor?

Another surprise could be leaving out havili. If they pick tupaea, rts, goodhue, then they've got 3 12 options, plus if they pick leicester that will be 4 options, and they have Jordie.

Another possible surprise would be telea, or aj lam, or rayasi.

Tom robinson could make it.

Ollie Norris could make it ahead of hodgman or ross.

It's possible they pick sowakula to prevent him from playing for fiji.

But the safe guess would be

De groot bower hodgman
Taukeiaho Taylor coles
Laulala taavao tuungafasi
Retallick whitelock barrett vaai
Cane savea ione papalii sotutu frizell jacobson
Smith Fakatava christie
Barret mounga perofeta
Goodhue ione tupaea havili rts
Clarke jordan barrett Reece faingaanuku

Personally I think Christie has been poor against the brumbies, both times, not getting the ball out when the ruck is under pressure, failing to prevent turnovers. He was the same in tests last year. Otherwise he has a great all round game, but he could miss out to weber, or even TJ although TJ has played only two good games this year. Despite having a lot of good halfback options, actually none of them have been great this year.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Possible All Blacks squad
Hookers: Codie Taylor (Crusaders), Samisoni Taukei'aho (Chiefs), Dane Coles (Hurricanes)
Props: Nepo Laulala (Blues), Ofa Tuungafasi (Blues), Angus Ta'avao (Chiefs), Ethan de Groot (Highlanders), George Bower (Crusaders), Aidan Ross (Chiefs)
Locks: Brodie Retallick (Chiefs), Sam Whitelock (Crusaders), Josh Lord (Chiefs), Tupou Vaa'i (Chiefs), Scott Barrett (Crusaders)
Loose forwards: Sam Cane (Chiefs, captain), Ardie Savea (Hurricanes), Dalton Papalii (Blues), Akira Ioane (Blues), Luke Jacobson (Chiefs), Hoskins Sotutu (Blues), Shannon Frizell (Highlanders)
Halfbacks: Aaron Smith (Highlanders), Brad Weber (Chiefs), Folau Fakatava (Highlanders)
No 10s: Beauden Barrett (Blues), Richie Mo'unga (Crusaders)
Midfielders: Rieko Ioane (Blues), Jack Goodhue (Crusaders), Quinn Tupaea (Chiefs), Roger Tuivasa-Sheck (Blues), Leicester Fainga'anuku (Crusaders)
Outside backs: Caleb Clarke (Blues), Sevu Reece (Crusaders), Jordie Barrett (Hurricanes), Will Jordan (Crusaders), Stephen Perofeta (Blues)

All Blacks may omit TJ Perenara, but wholesale changes are unlikely

OPINION: Halfback is under pressure from Brad Weber, Finlay Christie and Folau Fakatava in four-way race for two spots that will go down to the wire.

i.stuff.co.nz

Stuff's opinion of possible AB squad.