A Welsh dominated Lions?

[Zed]

Will the British Lions XV be dominated by Welsh players? They've got a pretty poor record against Australia, losing the last 8, winning only 2 out of the last 23 games and the last time they won in Australia was in 1969. Do you think this should have any bearing on the selection of the Lions XV? From a psychological perspective are the Welsh players up for it? The 2013 Wallabies side will be much stronger than it has been for years and I think if Gatland goes for a team with 11/12 Welsh players, they're going to lose. Not because the Australian players are necessarily better, but because as a group of players the Welsh don't perform as well against Australia as they do against other teams.

 

[Peat]

Well, straight away I have to disagree with your initial sentence. There's a possibility but no guarantee; the Irish had a large contingent and a grand slam on last tour and didn't dominate the test team. Yes, there's the Wales coach in charge, but this is no guarantee either. Form on tour will be the main criterion.

And, really, if the Welsh do just fade against Australian players, that'll get discovered pretty quick.

Its not exactly happy news that things have turned out this way, no, and I'd be lying if I said I had no worries about this score - but mostly I think we'll be fine, as mostly I don't think a hugely Welsh heavy team will come about unless they are absolutely on fire.

 

[Zed]

Well, straight away I have to disagree with your initial sentence.

Actually I don't think it will be either, hence the reason I've edited my post. I think it will be an even mix. Some of the potential Lions XV teams as suggested by ex rugby players, coaches etc have got some strange choices and it really challenges their credibility. Not having Tuilagi in the starting XV is just bizarre. He's the only player, IMO, in the British Isles that would make a World XV at the moment. He'd walk into the Wallabies side and probably even the All Blacks. Yes he has his limitations and weaknesses, but from an attacking perspective, he's easily the most potent player the Lions have. And people are suggesting Davis is chosen ahead of him!? Tuilagi is the one player the Wallabies are afraid of.

 

[lynam1104]

I think one thing that will help the Welsh players is the fact that there are guys with the Lions who have beatend AUS/NZ/SA while the Welsh team being young there hasn't been that winning experience with Wales while it will be there with the Lions. Now i'm not saying Wales don't know how to win it's pretty clear they do just haven't doen it against SH opposition yet. So I think add in the English/Irish/Scottish guys who have beaten SH teams I don't think it will be a problem. Also I feel the mix will be will be doen to who brings the business over the next few weeks not the fact that Gatland likes them or their Welsh.

 

[Big Ewis]

actually, Australia is also pretty terrified by the scrum I'm sure. Those British/Irish Lions will have a handpicked pack out of 4 elite scrummaging nations, esp. Wales and England...that's going to hurt the Wallabies like ****.
And then yeh, there's that Samoan kid at midfield as you've mentioned...

 

[Peat]

Ireland an elite scrummaging nation?!

 

[big ginger 8]

I'm sure I'll regret this but...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hIyQTGbSfEc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

btw Zed think Healy'd fancy his chances at a world XV.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Ireland only have to contribute one good scrum every four years in order to be considered an elite scrummagin nation

Whilst test places are clearly still up for grabs, I don't think a single English player will start in the first test. If Youngs or Croft play well in training or warmups they stand an outside chance, but mostly we'll just be filling up the bench. This is odd when you bear in mind that over the last 3 years England have won as many six nations games as Wales, more than Ireland, and a few good southern hemipshere wins and draws to boot.

Re Tuilagi, interesting reading that blog BG8 linked to. He discussed the 'main threats' in various positions around the field, and in the locks/lineout selection he managed to avoid mentiioning parling at all except once, and didnt mention Tuilagi at all - he expects Davies to make the bench and Tuilagi not to feature at all.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Actually I don't think it will be either, hence the reason I've edited my post. I think it will be an even mix. Some of the potential Lions XV teams as suggested by ex rugby players, coaches etc have got some strange choices and it really challenges their credibility. Not having Tuilagi in the starting XV is just bizarre. He's the only player, IMO, in the British Isles that would make a World XV at the moment. He'd walk into the Wallabies side and probably even the All Blacks. Yes he has his limitations and weaknesses, but from an attacking perspective, he's easily the most potent player the Lions have. And people are suggesting Davis is chosen ahead of him!? Tuilagi is the one player the Wallabies are afraid of.

I don't think anyone has been suggesting Davies ahead of Tuilagi? The man couldn't pass to save his life.
Personally I would start with Roberts / O'Driscoll, with Tuilagi used more as an impact sub. BOD / Tuilagi would be nice but I don't see that happening, and Roberts / Tuilagi would be too one dimensional.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I don't think anyone has been suggesting Davies ahead of Tuilagi? The man couldn't pass to save his life.
Personally I would start with Roberts / O'Driscoll, with Tuilagi used more as an impact sub. BOD / Tuilagi would be nice but I don't see that happening, and Roberts / Tuilagi would be too one dimensional.

Haha good timing with our posts...as I say, the aussie guy thinks Davies will be chosen because he has 'guile' and because he has also played wing. However, this guy was describing everything that was good about the 2009 roberts/bod partnership without acknowledging that neither have hit those heights recently, especially roberts... he also describes wales as having a 'balanced' centre partnership, which struck me as odd...

Agree with evrythign you say, btw.

 

[psychic duck]

I don't think anyone has been suggesting Davies ahead of Tuilagi? The man couldn't pass to save his life.
Personally I would start with Roberts / O'Driscoll, with Tuilagi used more as an impact sub. BOD / Tuilagi would be nice but I don't see that happening, and Roberts / Tuilagi would be too one dimensional.

In fairness, Tuilagi isn't exactly a pass master either.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

In fairness, Tuilagi isn't exactly a pass master either.

No, but there's literally no evidence to suggest he's not a good passer of the ball at least.

 

[Big Ewis]

I'm sure I'll regret this but...

^ well I ain't regretting it !
That's called "destroying" I believe...and yes we know, Ireland got "manshamed" the next year in Twickers...ok.

But with Healy and certain nice pieces in there, I like Ireland over most SH teams in the scrum. But Ireland being the least "elite" of the four, the other 3 are certainly in the world top scums. Heck, Wales is either first or second after or in front of France and England is always strong there. But Ireland have looked a lot better this year in that dept.

EDIT:

I don't think anyone has been suggesting Davies ahead of Tuilagi? The man couldn't pass to save his life.
Personally I would start with Roberts / O'Driscoll, with Tuilagi used more as an impact sub. BOD / Tuilagi would be nice but I don't see that happening, and Roberts / Tuilagi would be too one dimensional.

I agree with all of this.

 

[psychic duck]

I'm not sure this author has actually seen Jonathan Davies play. Nearly everything it states on him is wrong.

 

[big ginger 8]

I'm not sure this author has actually seen Jonathan Davies play. Nearly everything it states on him is wrong.

Yeah wouldn't exactly say he's a guile centre and has he ever even played wing?

 

[dullonien]

Yeah wouldn't exactly say he's a guile centre and has he ever even played wing?

Might have featured once or twice on the wing. But nothing which would help his cause tbh.

He can show moments of guile. He's a lot quicker than he looks, and runs well at soft shoulders. His main asset is his ability to score try's from nothing, he's just got a knack of getting over the line. His passing is a big worry.

However Tuilagi isn't too much better imo. He simply doesn't pass (not sure if that's better or worse than Davies not being able to!). His form can fluctuate a lot as well. He was terrible against Wales, butchered two try scoring opportunities, and was shut out of the game by Roberts when he tried his power running. However he was great against NZ in the Autumn.

If our centres click, we could have a real edge in that department. There's a chance all four could struggle though, and that's a bit of a worry.

 

[Aristodemus]

He won that game against NZ, every try he was key to. I think he should start but it looks like Gatland doesn't have the same opinion, the guy just scores tries he shouldn't and yes he can pass. I find it very harsh people compare him to Roberts. I will say though that Australia have more to fear in the Lions squad than just Manu.

 

[psychic duck]

Might have featured once or twice on the wing. But nothing which would help his cause tbh.

He can show moments of guile. He's a lot quicker than he looks, and runs well at soft shoulders. His main asset is his ability to score try's from nothing, he's just got a knack of getting over the line. His passing is a big worry.

However Tuilagi isn't too much better imo. He simply doesn't pass (not sure if that's better or worse than Davies not being able to!). His form can fluctuate a lot as well. He was terrible against Wales, butchered two try scoring opportunities, and was shut out of the game by Roberts when he tried his power running. However he was great against NZ in the Autumn.

If our centres click, we could have a real edge in that department. There's a chance all four could struggle though, and that's a bit of a worry.

I can't say I recall Davies playing wing, but even if he did it must have been so fleeting as hardly relevant anyway.

I also agree about the passing. For an international centre, Jonathan Davies' passing is not good. However that is a poor argument to preferring Tuilagi as he can't/won't pass.

The selection between Tuilagi or Davies comes down to which of them is better at their strengths anyway, as neither will be selected for their passing or lack of passing.

He won that game against NZ, every try he was key to. I think he should start but it looks like Gatland doesn't have the same opinion, the guy just scores tries he shouldn't and yes he can pass. I find it very harsh people compare him to Roberts. I will say though that Australia have more to fear in the Lions squad than just Manu.

Have you hacked into Gatland's brain then?

There is nothing whatsoever to suggest this. In fact, he's right down the line of centre that he likes.

 

[dullonien]

He won that game against NZ, every try he was key to. I think he should start but it looks like Gatland doesn't have the same opinion, the guy just scores tries he shouldn't and yes he can pass. I find it very harsh people compare him to Roberts. I will say though that Australia have more to fear in the Lions squad than just Manu.

Certainly, on his day he's superb. And yes, he can pass, but he often chooses not to/doesn't recognise when to. The same can be said of Davies, and maybe of Roberts though.

 

[j'nuh]

Tuilagi is as good as people will let him be. He thrives when he can take the ball at speed and in the right area of the field, which puts a big onus on the 10/12 to release Tuilagi. So if we fancy playing Sexton at 10 and BOD at 12, count Tuilagi in at 13. He breaks a tackle like no other. However if Farrell plays at 10 and Roberts at 12, then Tuilagi is pointless.