[2018 Rugby Championship] - South Africa Squad

[TRF_heineken]

The Springbok squad for the Rugby Championship (in alphabetical order - name and surname, franchise/club, Test caps and points):

Forwards (20)

Cyle Brink (Loose forward, Lions, uncapped)

Jean-Luc du Preez (Loose forward, Sharks, 13, 10 - 2t)

Thomas du Toit (Prop, Sharks, 4, 0)

Pieter-Steph du Toit (Lock / Loose forward, Stormers, 36, 20 - 4t)

Eben Etzebeth (Lock, Stormers, 67, 15 - 3t)

Steven Kitshoff (Prop, Stormers, 27, 5 - 1t)

Siya Kolisi (captain - Loose forward, Stormers, 31, 20 - 4t)

Francois Louw (Loose forward, Bath, England, 57, 45 - 9t)

Wilco Louw (Prop, Stormers, 7, 0)

Frans Malherbe (Prop, Stormers, 19, 0)

Malcolm Marx (Hooker, Lions, 14, 15 - 3t)

Bongi Mbonambi (Hooker, Stormers, 16, 5 - 1t)

Franco Mostert (Lock, Lions, 21, 5 - 1t)

Tendai Mtawarira (Prop, Sharks, 101, 10 - 2t)

Sikhumbuzo Notshe (Loose forward, Stormers, 4, 0)

Marvin Orie (Lock, Lions, 1, 0)

RG Snyman (Lock, Bulls, 3, 0)

Akker van der Merwe (Hooker, Sharks, 3, 0)

Marco van Staden (Loose forward, Bulls, uncapped)

Warren Whiteley (No 8, Lions, 17, 15 - 3t)

Backs (15)

Lukhanyo Am (Centre, Sharks, 3, 0)

Ross Cronjé (Scrumhalf, Lions, 10, 10 - 2t)

Faf de Klerk (Scrumhalf, Sale Sharks, England, 14, 5 - 1t)

Aphiwe Dyantyi (Wing, Lions, 3, 5 - 1t)

André Esterhuizen (Centre, Sharks, 2, 0)

Elton Jantjies (Flyhalf, Lions, 26, 215 - 2t, 41c, 41p)

Jesse Kriel (Centre, Bulls, 32, 45 - 9t)

Willie le Roux (Fullback, Wasps, England, 44, 55 - 11t)

Makazole Mapimpi (Wing, Sharks, 1, 5 - 1t)

Lionel Mapoe (Centre, Lions, 12, 0)

Lwazi Mvovo (Wing, Sharks, 17, 30 - 6t)

Embrose Papier (Scrumhalf, Bulls, 2, 0)

Handré Pollard (Flyhalf, Bulls, 29, 246 - 3t, 42c, 46p, 3d)

Ivan van Zyl (Scrumhalf, Bulls, 3, 0)

Damian Willemse (Flyhalf, Stormers, uncapped)

 

[Durbanite]

No surprises. Very good to see Willemse and Brink in the squad, not too sure about Flouw tbh (say this every time) just don't think he's needed at this point except maybe that he brings a lot of experience to the forwards, can't deny his ability when he's on song though. Not very familiar with van Staden, how has he been playing?

Good to see Cronje, Marx and Etzebeth back!!!

Very happy so far, should be interesting to see who Erasmus picks first up to take on the Pumas

Players who were not considered because of injury include Damian de Allende (Stormers), Warrick Gelant, Lood de Jager, Trevor Nyakane (all Bulls), Coenie Oosthuizen and Sbu Nkosi (both Sharks).

I hope we see these names back soon, Coenie has been out of ages, Gelant needs some time in the green and gold (we've been talking about him for ages but he's still barely had any game time), Nkosi has been playing well and Lood is in the same camp as Coenie. As for DDA, I hope this either means that AE will have another chance to show what he can do for the boks (and not disappoint), or that DDA returns looking more like the player he once was. Either way, we need more competition for selection when it comes to centres, so it's good that things are looking a bit more open and undecided there going into TRC I reckon

 

[die_mole]

De allende was at training camp so I'd imagine he's part of the plans, just not able to play during RC.

 

[Durbanite]

De allende was at training camp so I'd imagine he's part of the plans, just not able to play during RC.

So do I, he's very much our staple 12. Just saying I hope after this RC his selection will be less of a foregone conclusion and we hopefully have a little bit more depth and competition at 12

 

[Bada-Bing!]

No Bismarck?

 

[mdaclarke]

Where is Combrinck?

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

4 scrum halves? The bulls substitute scrum half? Really?

It's a shame people like serfontein and RJVR wont be playing, for whatever reason. I find them both incredibly entertaining to watch.

I still have trouble accepting the fact that Jantjies is on the list and du preez isn't.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I find the backline composition also very weird. Only one specialist 12 in Andre Esterhuizen with perhaps Pollard being his back-up. 4 Scrumhalves of which the 3 was part of the England series so I get the matter of consistency while only adding Cronje (who was injured during the England series). Then the wingers and fullbacks.

But then I realise that this is just for the first 2 games against the Jaguares. So I guess there might be some changes afterwards.

 

[Durbanite]

No Bismarck?

https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/rassie-explains-schalk-brits-situation-20180806

"If we go with the three hookers we have and take them to the World Cup, I think we can win a World Cup with them and their quality," Erasmus said.

"But I think if a guy like Malcolm goes down and we go into the World Cup with the other two boys and then there is another injury, I think we're in trouble.

"That's why a guy like Bismarck (Du Plessis) or Schalk Brits, or somebody like that ... they might not even make the World Cup squad if the other three stay fit, but in terms of solid experience and having been there and done that, they could come in."

 

[unrated]

No Serfontein, Steyn, Bissie and Goosen we can now safely say that if one of our best players moves to France and even worse Montpelier then we wont see them in a Springbok shirt again until they move back to South Africa.
Players in England still gets called up but the French teams dont seem to release players. No one can tell me these players are not good enough.

I just hoped Steyn could at least train with the Boks, they dont even have to play him straight up. Just put him in the squad with the rest of the SA based players and if the locals are truly better according to the coaches analysis then dont play him or even dont pick him again. But they wont know if they dont even pick him. It seems that fiasco before the English series with Bissie and Steyn has either convinced Rassie not to go that route anymore or i am vindicated in my Montpelier suspicions.
Another case of politics in rugby.

 

[TRF_heineken]

No Serfontein, Steyn, Bissie and Goosen we can now safely say that if one of our best players moves to France and even worse Montpelier then we wont see them in a Springbok shirt again until they move back to South Africa.
Players in England still gets called up but the French teams dont seem to release players. No one can tell me these players are not good enough.

I just hoped Steyn could at least train with the Boks, they dont even have to play him straight up. Just put him in the squad with the rest of the SA based players and if the locals are truly better according to the coaches analysis then dont play him or even dont pick him again. But they wont know if they dont even pick him. It seems that fiasco before the English series with Bissie and Steyn has either convinced Rassie not to go that route anymore or i am vindicated in my Montpelier suspicions.
Another case of politics in rugby.

I don't think this is the case though.

Bismarck and Steyn was injured during the England series, and there has been no report that they are fit again or even match ready. So I guess Rassie went with the option of rather picking local guys who are fit and able to play in 2 week's time.

Goosen's last match was for the Cheetahs early this year, the contention again would be if he'll be fit and able to play and the same goes for Serfontein.

Flouw certainly is the exception here, and along with Faf and Willie are the only overseas based players selected. But I get the reasoning for picking Flouw as apart from Etzebeth and Beast, our entire pack is very green so we'll need an experienced guy especially with the 2 uncapped flankers also in the mix.

But humour me with this thinking: Isn't this a good idea to select mostly SH based players for the SH based tournament, and then pick some of the NH guys for EOYT? It will certainly aid with giving the bulk of the SH a good rest in preparation for next year's World Cup.

Based on everything Rassie has said, I get the feeling that he's going to use a lot more players than what he has already, and it's for him more about timing and being ready to play more than one week in a row.

 

[Durbanite]

So for the first Arg game maybe:
1. Mtawarira
2. Marx
3. Malherbe
4. Etzebeth
5. Mostert
6. van Staden/Flouw
7. Kolisi (c)
8. Whiteley
9. de Klerk
10. Pollard
11. Dyanti
12. Esterhuizen
13. Am
14. Mapimpi
15. Willie le Roux

Subs
16. Akker/Bongi
17. Kitshoff
18. TdT
19. Snyman/PSdT
20. JLdP/Brink/Notshe
21. Cronje
22. Jessie Kriel
23. Willemse

Thoughts?

 

[unrated]

I don't think this is the case though.

Bismarck and Steyn was injured during the England series, and there has been no report that they are fit again or even match ready. So I guess Rassie went with the option of rather picking local guys who are fit and able to play in 2 week's time.

Goosen's last match was for the Cheetahs early this year, the contention again would be if he'll be fit and able to play and the same goes for Serfontein.

Flouw certainly is the exception here, and along with Faf and Willie are the only overseas based players selected. But I get the reasoning for picking Flouw as apart from Etzebeth and Beast, our entire pack is very green so we'll need an experienced guy especially with the 2 uncapped flankers also in the mix.

But humour me with this thinking: Isn't this a good idea to select mostly SH based players for the SH based tournament, and then pick some of the NH guys for EOYT? It will certainly aid with giving the bulk of the SH a good rest in preparation for next year's World Cup.

Based on everything Rassie has said, I get the feeling that he's going to use a lot more players than what he has already, and it's for him more about timing and being ready to play more than one week in a row.

You could very well be right. But in the end we are both speculating about the reasons for their omissions. We do know however that Montpellier is a difficult bunch when it comes to the releasing of players for International duty.
And to support the idea that Rassie still fancies these players is the comments he keeps on giving to the media regarding these players.

About Steyn he mentioned this:

"Pat Lambie started as a 15 before moving to 10 and Frans Steyn too. I think it helps you a lot with understanding how to manipulate the opposition. I think we're going to try him like that"

Comparing Willemse to Steyn

"He's a local boy and he is available and always here. Maybe he is one of those like Frans Steyn when he was 19 who can just step up and do it already."

"I see him as a future guy who can cover 10, 12 and 15 which is a wonderful thing to have in your team," said Erasmus.


He said this about Bismarck

"But I think if a guy like Malcolm goes down and we go into the World Cup with the other two boys and then there is another injury, I think we're in trouble.

"That's why a guy like Bismarck (Du Plessis) or Schalk Brits, or somebody like that ... they might not even make the World Cup squad if the other three stay fit, but in terms of solid experience and having been there and done that, they could come in."

So he clearly still sees the value in these players, Steyn can cover all those positions and i still dont buy the idea that they are injured, at the very least it wouldn't have been long term injuries as he previously mentioned that they could have made it back for the second test against England. They have now rested. The Brits story highlights this fact. His last game was basically the same time as the other guys such as Steyn and Bismarck.

Another issue i have is the Brits situation. I would never have considered him. Then Rassie calls the guy out of retirement. Brits says "Ok im going to defer my studies at Cambridge University for a year because Rassie says im in his plans for the world cup."
Then he is not even included in the squad. Ok yes he also hasnt played much rugby since the England series but the point was never to start him anyway. Marx was always going to come back. The goal was for him to train with these guys and pass on some knowledge and also to fill in, in case of an injury crisis at hooker.


Lastly regarding the team selection for the first test. It seems now that Kolisi will be the most likely captain of the Springboks on a permanent basis especially considering that both Whiteley and Etzebeth is back.
Kolisi has been playing ok, not great. But sure i accept he is the captain of the team now. but since he hasn't played that great yet and there is no option to leave our captain on the bench i really dont think we should play him at 7 instead of 6. Flouw is a Six and i see the value in trying to accommodate him but that does not outweigh the value in moving Kolisi to 7.

Would it not be better to keep Flouw on the bench, keep Kolisi at 6, bring in the Brawn of JLDP at 7 and have a agile guy such as Whiteley at 8. Then we stock the Locks with our two biggest guys in Etzebeth and Pieter Steph du Toit.
JLDP also finished first place in number of offloads in Super rugby despite the fact that he was injured for large periods of the campaign so he can fit in with a highly mobile pack.

The only reason i would include AM ahead of Kriel at 13 is because we will get the opportunity to see how AM does next to his Sharks centre partner. We know Esterhuizen is very likely to start considering he is the only 12 named in the 30+ man squad.

We have got some seriously good options in the loosies and i just cant see the point in playing PSDT there anymore. He and Etzebeth is our main locks, they have always performed well there and i dont see any reason for RG Snyman or Mostert to suddenly jump PSdT in the lock pecking order. They should remain on the sidelines until one of our two best locks gets injured, only then should we call on the other locks.


My preferred lineup for Argentina will be
15. Le Roux
14. Mapimpi
13. Am
12. Esterhuizen
11. Dyanti
10. Pollard
9. De Klerk
8. Whiteley
7. JLDP
6. Kolisi
5. PSdT
4. Etzebeth
3. Thomas du Toit
2. Marx
1. Mtawarira

 

[SomeOke]

It sounds like we will see Willemse at 15 for the first home game agaisnt Arg - possibly to give him a run for our "easiest" fixture. That means we might see Willie at 14 or rested. I don't think 11. Dyantyi 14. Willie 15. Willemse is much worse than 11.Dyantyi 14. Mampimpi 15. Willie, in fact it might be better.
Loose trio is a tough one to call but there have been rumours Whiteley won't start for the first test, so we have something like 6. Siya 7. JLDP 8.Flouw or something along those lines. Rassie has said he feels it's vital to have fetchers when playing in the SH, but I think that applies more to NZ and Aus.

 

[Durbanite]

Rassie on DDA

"Damian is not officially in the squad, but he is very close to being ready for the first game,"

"He might be ready, and I thought he was one of the guys who is slowly getting back to his best."

On Esterhuizen

"I think a guy like Andre Esterhuizen had a tough run,"

"Both games that he started were in the wet and it's not always the nicest thing for the biggest boys. I think he must get a fair chance somewhere."

On Serfontein

"Jan is a guy that at age-group level beat the Junior All Blacks and you can never throw that away,"

"I know he has had a bad injury which he is sorting out. I went to see him, and he is very keen to play for us. He wants to get back to form with his club.

"I can't see him participating in the Rugby Championship."

He also hinted that Pollard might shift to inside centre mid game, but no word on Willemse playing at 12

 

[FrenchFan]

No Serfontein, Steyn, Bissie and Goosen we can now safely say that if one of our best players moves to France and even worse Montpelier then we wont see them in a Springbok shirt again until they move back to South Africa.
Players in England still gets called up but the French teams dont seem to release players. No one can tell me these players are not good enough.

Never heard of Montpellier not releasing his internationals. Another myth.

 

[unrated]

Never heard of Montpellier not releasing his internationals. Another myth.

Im not saying its a fact. But there is a suspicion of something happening behind the scenes where their South African players cant play for the Springboks. I actually cant recall a South African player being called up while playing for that team.

Our players just dont seem to be called up from this team.
Here are some articles that fuels this suspicion:

In the above link former coach Coetzee claims the following
Coetzee did not go into detail' but did let drop that it had more to do with Steyn's club Montpellier than the player himself.

"I had a chat with Frans last week'" Coetzee said.

"We haven't resolved those issues with the club that will allow him to play."

With Jan Serfontein declaring himself unavailable for this tour to ensure his smooth transition into French rugby' ironically in the same midfield as Steyn in southwest France' Coetzee was keen on some experience in that channel.

Just when Serfontein moved to Montpellier the two sides came to an agreement to not pick him for the following Springbok matches in order to help him settle in at his new club.


1. Are they good enough to play for the national side? Yes .

2. Do they want to play for the national side? Yes

3. Does the current coach want them to play for the national side? Yes


Rassie did actually call them up and he is quoted explaining their value to the team. Here's the link for the original article

"The guys that told me straight up that 'I'm not sure', those guys we just didn't contact, and we accepted that those guys have made peace that they are going on with their careers abroad.

"But Bismarck and Frans were the guys that said they desperately want to play. I have no doubt that it is unfortunately one of those things out of our control.

"It is what it is, and for the better of them and their clubs and to the detriment of our set-up, so we had to make that call."


Now its the latest round of international fixtures. The top 14 is in its off season but all three players that we want to call up to the national team are mysteriously injured. They played in the final but then suddenly became injured before the Springbok matches. Im pretty sure all three of them will start for Montpelier when the new top 14 season kicks off.

In this article below the writer contends the following https://www.supersport.com/rugby/news/180607_Frans_Bismarck_still_in_France_undergoing_tests
The Springboks have been vague and have defended both players as still being committed to the Springbok cause, yet neither has been diagnosed with an injury that has kept them out of the Bok setup.

Instead, it seems that the "medical exit tests" they need at Montpelier following their appearance in the Top 14 final on Saturday necessitated the late arrival and Erasmus eventually felt he couldn't wait for them any longer.

Both players were required to be released under regulation 9 of the World Rugby regulations but it doesn't seem that Erasmus has made any formal complaints about their absence, explaining rather that he simply couldn't wait for them any longer.


It could be a conspiracy. It could be a series of questionable events and opinions from the players, club and coaches that is merely a very unlikely coincidence but since we probably wont get an admission from Montpellier the best we can do is empirically observe whats currently happening and that is the fact that the Montpelier South Africans does not play for their national team.

 

[SomeOke]

I have no doubt in my mind that at the very least French clubs put pressure on the SA players to NOT go home and play for the Springboks.
They pay their salaries after all, they have a lot of power over the players. They might not be allowed to do so under world rugby laws, but it's not like they have no leverage.

 

[FrenchFan]

Im not saying its a fact. But there is a suspicion of something happening behind the scenes where their South African players cant play for the Springboks. I actually cant recall a South African player being called up while playing for that team.

Our players just dont seem to be called up from this team.
Here are some articles that fuels this suspicion:

In the above link former coach Coetzee claims the following
Coetzee did not go into detail' but did let drop that it had more to do with Steyn's club Montpellier than the player himself.

"I had a chat with Frans last week'" Coetzee said.

"We haven't resolved those issues with the club that will allow him to play."

With Jan Serfontein declaring himself unavailable for this tour to ensure his smooth transition into French rugby' ironically in the same midfield as Steyn in southwest France' Coetzee was keen on some experience in that channel.

Just when Serfontein moved to Montpellier the two sides came to an agreement to not pick him for the following Springbok matches in order to help him settle in at his new club.


1. Are they good enough to play for the national side? Yes .

2. Do they want to play for the national side? Yes

3. Does the current coach want them to play for the national side? Yes


Rassie did actually call them up and he is quoted explaining their value to the team. Here's the link for the original article

"The guys that told me straight up that 'I'm not sure', those guys we just didn't contact, and we accepted that those guys have made peace that they are going on with their careers abroad.

"But Bismarck and Frans were the guys that said they desperately want to play. I have no doubt that it is unfortunately one of those things out of our control.

"It is what it is, and for the better of them and their clubs and to the detriment of our set-up, so we had to make that call."


Now its the latest round of international fixtures. The top 14 is in its off season but all three players that we want to call up to the national team are mysteriously injured. They played in the final but then suddenly became injured before the Springbok matches. Im pretty sure all three of them will start for Montpelier when the new top 14 season kicks off.

In this article below the writer contends the following https://www.supersport.com/rugby/news/180607_Frans_Bismarck_still_in_France_undergoing_tests
The Springboks have been vague and have defended both players as still being committed to the Springbok cause, yet neither has been diagnosed with an injury that has kept them out of the Bok setup.

Instead, it seems that the "medical exit tests" they need at Montpelier following their appearance in the Top 14 final on Saturday necessitated the late arrival and Erasmus eventually felt he couldn't wait for them any longer.

Both players were required to be released under regulation 9 of the World Rugby regulations but it doesn't seem that Erasmus has made any formal complaints about their absence, explaining rather that he simply couldn't wait for them any longer.


It could be a conspiracy. It could be a series of questionable events and opinions from the players, club and coaches that is merely a very unlikely coincidence but since we probably wont get an admission from Montpellier the best we can do is empirically observe whats currently happening and that is the fact that the Montpelier South Africans does not play for their national team.

Conspiracy.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I hear you guys, but I still think there is a bigger picture here, and Rassie is finally doing something that I wish previous coaches also did, and that is to have a long term sustainable plan. He's doing the best he can with the guys he has available and who isn't injured.

And Rassie's explanations makes completely sense. Especially on the french-based players. I read an article yesterday about Jan Serfontein who only recently got the all clear after suffering an injury, so again it's a matter of picking players who are fit and on form.

The Schalk Brits issue is complex. And perhaps the Blue Bulls have the right plan in trying to get Schalk to join them on a temporary basis as it would benefit them as well as the Springboks in having Schalk being more match ready.

The questions we have to ask ourselves is this:

1. Will we be competitive in the Rugby Championship with the current squad? Yes
2. Will this same squad be selected for the EOYT? No

With Question 1, it's an easy yes to give. I in fact think that this squad might even be good enough to win the Championship.

With Question 2, again an easy one to give. The fact is that there will be injuries from now until the EOYT. The question is more of how many guys will get injured and who will replace them.

We can ponder all we want why this guy or that guy is/isn't selected, but at the end of the day, that's the luxury of being Springbok coach, he can make those choices.