[2016 Super Rugby] Rebels vs. Reds (Round 3) 12/03/2016

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: AAMI Park
Time: 10:45 CAT (SA, GMT+2)​

 

[saulan]

Should be interesting now that the Reds don't have a coach.

EDIT: Well they have a stand in coach, having kicked out their coach. 9 wins in 34 games as coach and the Reds just haven't looked like scoring this season yet.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Well the rebels should embarass the reds but just like last year when they appointed conolly as advisor the reds came out fired up. I'm wondering if they flick the switch now that graham is toast.

Feel sorry for graham because he seems like a nice guy, horrible record as a coach though and I can understand hiw he had to go.

 

[back2back]

The Force and the Reds are a waste of time and the Aussie conference needs to spread their players, the NZ conference is cut throat and the AU conference has two whipping boys and no competition for 1st and 2nd, the Rebels can be a thorn at times, but overall the Aussie conference is lop sided and boring, the only enjoyable fixture that's worth watching ever for neutrals is the Tahs vs Brumbies and maybe the occasional Rebels game if they play well.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

These two teams are a waste of time and the Aussie conference needs to spread their players, the NZ conference is cut throat and the AU conference has two whipping boys and no competition for 1st and 2nd, the Rebels can be a thorn at times, but overall the Aussie conference is lop sided and boring, the only enjoyable fixture that's worth watching ever for neutrals is the Tahs vs Brumbies and maybe the occasional Rebels game if they play well.

Tell us what you really think next time mate. For me and 10,000+ other Rebels fans and members, we are grateful to have the Rebels in our fine city. Win, Lose or Draw we will back them 100% because seeing Rugby live in Melbourne is never a waste of time.

 

[back2back]

Tell us what you really think next time mate. For me and 10,000+ other Rebels fans and members, we are grateful to have the Rebels in our fine city. Win, Lose or Draw we will back them 100% because seeing Rugby live in Melbourne is never a waste of time.

I'm happy for the Rebels as well, I just think it's highly unfair the Australian conference that the Brumbies and the Tahs have all the Wallabies. I'm only being honest about the state of the conference mate, there was never any offense intended and whether you like what I said or not, it's the hard truth about the state of things in the Aussie conference. Tahs and Brumbies have stacked squads and first dibs on any new rising stars, it's pretty BS. The Force don't even have 1 International.

 

[nickdnz]

The Force don't even have 1 International.

You mean besides Pek Cowan, Nick Cummins, Matt Hodgson, Luke Morahan, Nathan Charles, Alby Mathewson, Ben McCalman and a few others?

 

[back2back]

You mean besides Pek Cowan, Nick Cummins, Matt Hodgson, Luke Morahan, Nathan Charles, Alby Mathewson, Ben McCalman and a few others?

I should've been more specific, not one starting International Wallaby, barring McCalman who probably isn't a starter anymore, point remains, the quality should be spread a little more to beefen the conference up.

 

[TRF_heineken]

You mean besides Pek Cowan, Nick Cummins, Matt Hodgson, Luke Morahan, Nathan Charles, Alby Mathewson, Ben McCalman and a few others?

Don't forget about Peter Grant... Who seems to be just a benchwarmer for them...

 

[InsaneAsylum]

I'm happy for the Rebels as well, I just think it's highly unfair the Australian conference that the Brumbies and the Tahs have all the Wallabies. I'm only being honest about the state of the conference mate, there was never any offense intended and whether you like what I said or not, it's the hard truth about the state of things in the Aussie conference. Tahs and Brumbies have stacked squads and first dibs on any new rising stars, it's pretty BS. The Force don't even have 1 International.

All good, I'm not offended and you are entitled to your own opinion, I just wanted to make it clear how fans see the Rebels over here. Even though I grew up in Melbourne, I don't follow AFL. Tired of the saturated media, thuggish crowd and over hyped marketing for what is essentially aerial ping pong.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't forget about Peter Grant... Who seems to be just a benchwarmer for them...

Yeah I don't get that Peter Grant is a solid experienced player. If anything, Lance should be on the bench

 

[Jaguares]

The Force and the Reds are a waste of time and the Aussie conference needs to spread their players, the NZ conference is cut throat and the AU conference has two whipping boys and no competition for 1st and 2nd, the Rebels can be a thorn at times, but overall the Aussie conference is lop sided and boring, the only enjoyable fixture that's worth watching ever for neutrals is the Tahs vs Brumbies and maybe the occasional Rebels game if they play well.

Reds is the most popular SR franchise in Australia, they can get 45k supporters at Suncorp Stadium at the playoff easily. They are the most important asset of Aussie rugby:

Semi Final 2011: Reds vs Blues at Suncorp Stadium. Attendance: 44,940
Super Rugby Final 2011: Reds vs Crusaders at Suncorp Stadium. Attendance: 52,113

 

[back2back]

Reds is the most popular SR franchise in Australia, they can get 45k supporters at Suncorp Stadium at the playoff easily. They are the most important asset of Aussie rugby:

Semi Final 2011: Reds vs Blues at Suncorp Stadium. Attendance: 44,940
Super Rugby Final 2011: Reds vs Crusaders at Suncorp Stadium. Attendance: 52,113

Yes it's a huge Union, all the more reason why it's surprising they're not making more effort to rebuild a strong team. They have the finances to lure some players to union from league as well. Really would like to see the Aussie conference more competitive, it would be a lot more entertaining and fixtures like this would be viewed by not just the fans of the franchises but neutrals across the World.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yes it's a huge Union, all the more reason why it's surprising they're not making more effort to rebuild a strong team. They have the finances to lure some players to union from league as well. Really would like to see the Aussie conference more competitive, it would be a lot more entertaining and fixtures like this would be viewed by not just the fans of the franchises but neutrals across the World.

How long have you been watching Super Rugby??

When the Reds won the ***le, they had the most players playing for the national team, James Horwill, Rob Simmons, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, Digby Ioane, the Fainga'a brothers, to name a few. All national teams goes through cycles where one or two franchises dominate the national team. Springboks had that a few years ago when the Bulls won the ***le, and New Zealand had that when the Crusaders won the ***le... Nothing new...

 

[back2back]

How long have you been watching Super Rugby??

When the Reds won the ***le, they had the most players playing for the national team, James Horwill, Rob Simmons, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, Digby Ioane, the Fainga'a brothers, to name a few. All national teams goes through cycles where one or two franchises dominate the national team. Springboks had that a few years ago when the Bulls won the ***le, and New Zealand had that when the Crusaders won the ***le... Nothing new...

Since its inauguration. The Force and Rebels were created and not given top quality players to compete with, they have to live on the scraps of other franchises, just look at same of the players they have on their roster, they are improving which is positive, but it could have been sped up with a little more effort towards them.

It's not just them, it seems to be new teams in general to Super Rugby, they just get thrown together. The Jags being the exception as they approached it correctly tying their National team to them. The Sun Wolves needed to do the same and ring in a few outsiders, Goromaru should really be playing for them, he's getting older as well and would have been a very good experienced head and leader of the team.

 

[Jaguares]

Yes it's a huge Union, all the more reason why it's surprising they're not making more effort to rebuild a strong team. They have the finances to lure some players to union from league as well. Really would like to see the Aussie conference more competitive, it would be a lot more entertaining and fixtures like this would be viewed by not just the fans of the franchises but neutrals across the World.

Well, I don't see too much diferences between the conferences this season. Every conference has 2 or maybe 3 strong teams and the rest are weaks.

Australia has 2 strong teams this year: Brumbies and Waratahs. And 3 weak teams: Reds, Rebels and Force

South Africa has 2 strong teams: Stormers and Sharks. And 4 weak teams: Bulls, Cheetahs, Lions and Kings.

And New Zealand has 2 or 3 strong teams. Highlanders is the top, and then you have Blues and Chiefs. Then Hurricanes and Crusaders looks poor this season. The thing is, any NZ franchise looks unbeatable like the Saders some years ago or Chiefs 2012-2013

You can say that the Lions is a strong side because they beat Chiefs at away. Or Crusaders is strong because they beat Blues. Perhaps but I don't see them so strong as the Brumbies

 

[saulan]

South Africa has 2 strong teams: Stormers and Sharks. And 4 weak teams: Bulls, Cheetahs, Lions and Kings.

Yea, I would change this to three, Stormers, Lions and Sharks. You are underestimating that Lions team by saying they are only good because they beat the Chiefs. They have not lost in 14 matches (including the Currie Cup, which is basically the same team). They are a team to watch and the team, as a Stormers fan, I am the most concerned about on the SA side.

Anyway, thought I would point out that the Reds now lost their CEO as well.

 

[Jaguares]

Yea, I would change this to three, Stormers, Lions and Sharks. You are underestimating that Lions team by saying they are only good because they beat the Chiefs. They have not lost in 14 matches (including the Currie Cup, which is basically the same team). They are a team to watch and the team, as a Stormers fan, I am the most concerned about on the SA side.

Anyway, thought I would point out that the Reds now lost their CEO as well.

So the Lions side that the Jaguares beat easily in a pre-season game was a reserve side? Because the TV didn't show that game.

Indeed, Stormers didn't look so strong against Cheetahs

 

[TRF_heineken]

Since its inauguration. The Force and Rebels were created and not given top quality players to compete with, they have to live on the scraps of other franchises, just look at same of the players they have on their roster, they are improving which is positive, but it could have been sped up with a little more effort towards them.

It's not just them, it seems to be new teams in general to Super Rugby, they just get thrown together. The Jags being the exception as they approached it correctly tying their National team to them. The Sun Wolves needed to do the same and ring in a few outsiders, Goromaru should really be playing for them, he's getting older as well and would have been a very good experienced head and leader of the team.

I can't agree with you. Let's look at the Force, and since their inception who played for them and for an international team:

Pek Cowan
Brendan Cannon
Nathan Sharpe
Steve Mafi
David Pocock
Matt Hodgson
Ben Mccalman
Alby Matthewson
Matt Giteau
Nick Cummins
Scott Staniforth
James O'Connor
Drew Mitchell
Cameron Shepherd
Richard Brown
Scott Fava
Sam Norton-knight

These are all guys who played for the Force and international team and a lot of them were part of the first few years at the Force since their inception in 2006. I remember there was a lot of discussion when they started out that a couple of guys originally from Western Australia would just move back home and play for the Force.

Many teams aren't just thrown together and you are only looking at it from one perspective. Let's take the Cheetahs as an example. They were originally a combined team with the Lions, The Cats. Then the locals in the Free State as well as the Free State Rugby Union started to complain that they are being disadvantaged as the Lions HQ was used as the base of operations and the majority of players were Lions players. So when Super Rugby expanded, the Cheetahs got their wish to go it alone and has been improving ever since. But their biggest problem is that they don't have the finances to keep their players. If we were to make a list of all the Springboks that originally played for the Cheetahs, it would be a very long list, but most of them only played for one or two seasons before leaving for greener pastures.

 

[saulan]

So the Lions side that the Jaguares beat easily in a pre-season game was a reserve side? Because the TV didn't show that game.

Indeed, Stormers didn't look so strong against Cheetahs

Yep, it was a reserve team, this was the Lions lineup:
Lions: 15 John-Wessel Bell, 14 Koch Marx, 13 Nicolaas Hanekom, 12 Harold Vorster, 11 Anthony Volmink, 10 Marnitz Boshoff, 9 Dillon Smit, 8 Ruan Ackermann, 7 Cyle Brink, 6 Stephan de Wit, 5 Luvuyiso Lusaseni, 4 Andries Ferreira, 3 Pieter Scholtz, 2 Armand van der Merwe, 1 Corne Fourie.
Replacements - from: Malcolm Marx, Dylan Smith, Jacques van Rooyen, Lourens Erasmus, Bobby de Wee, Martin Muller, Ramone Samuels, Fabian Booysen, Ruaan Lerm, Jaco van der Walt, Rohan Janse van Rensburg, Jacques Nel, Ashlon Davids, Marco Jansen van Vuren, Ricky Schroeder , Selom Gavor.

Yep, we really didn't. I don't really know where we stand at the moment and I am hoping that we come out on top this weekend. It is quite difficult to judge if we are good or not because the Bulls we beat convincingly but they don't seem any good and we struggled against the Cheetahs, but the only team the Cheetahs have played is the Jaguares and I really don't know what to make of them either.

Edit: and this is the team from against the Chiefs:
Lions: 15 Andries Coetzee, 14 Ruan Combrinck, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Harold Vorster, 11 Courtnall Skosan, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley (captain), 7 Warwick Tecklenburg, 6 Jaco Kriel, 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Andries Ferreira, 3 Julian Redelinghuys, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Dylan Smith.
Replacements: 16 Armand van der Merwe, 17 Corné Fourie, 18 Ruan Dreyer, 19 Robert Kruger, 20 Fabian Booysen, 21 Jaco van der Walt, 22 Howard Mnisi, 23 Rohan Janse van Rensburg.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yep, it was a reserve team, this was the Lions lineup:
Lions: 15 John-Wessel Bell, 14 Koch Marx, 13 Nicolaas Hanekom, 12 Harold Vorster, 11 Anthony Volmink, 10 Marnitz Boshoff, 9 Dillon Smit, 8 Ruan Ackermann, 7 Cyle Brink, 6 Stephan de Wit, 5 Luvuyiso Lusaseni, 4 Andries Ferreira, 3 Pieter Scholtz, 2 Armand van der Merwe, 1 Corne Fourie.
Replacements - from: Malcolm Marx, Dylan Smith, Jacques van Rooyen, Lourens Erasmus, Bobby de Wee, Martin Muller, Ramone Samuels, Fabian Booysen, Ruaan Lerm, Jaco van der Walt, Rohan Janse van Rensburg, Jacques Nel, Ashlon Davids, Marco Jansen van Vuren, Ricky Schroeder , Selom Gavor.

Yep, we really didn't. I don't really know where we stand at the moment and I am hoping that we come out on top this weekend. It is quite difficult to judge if we are good or not because the Bulls we beat convincingly but they don't seem any good and we struggled against the Cheetahs, but the only team the Cheetahs have played is the Jaguares and I really don't know what to make of them either.

Edit: and this is the team from against the Chiefs:
Lions: 15 Andries Coetzee, 14 Ruan Combrinck, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Harold Vorster, 11 Courtnall Skosan, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley (captain), 7 Warwick Tecklenburg, 6 Jaco Kriel, 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Andries Ferreira, 3 Julian Redelinghuys, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Dylan Smith.
Replacements: 16 Armand van der Merwe, 17 Corné Fourie, 18 Ruan Dreyer, 19 Robert Kruger, 20 Fabian Booysen, 21 Jaco van der Walt, 22 Howard Mnisi, 23 Rohan Janse van Rensburg.

Also,

That match was played at Wits University, and the game was played at night under poorish lighting. But yeah, the Lions rested their better players as they played the Saturday prior to this match against the Bulls.