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The Rugby Championship 2023
[2016 Rugby Championship] New Zealand v Argentina (10/09/2016)
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<blockquote data-quote="The Jones Boy" data-source="post: 816244" data-attributes="member: 70721"><p>Hey Larksea, I'm glad you raised these issues because there is a plethora of discussion points here to be raised.</p><p>In an earlier post you mentioned that Conrad Smith always made the right decision and he rarely kicked etc.</p><p>It's true it did appear that way, and he did so much more for the AB's than just this, his defensive organisation of the backline, his leadership, his lightning fast vision to anticipate counter attack opportunities, his under rated pace, the list goes on, but Conrad was the best centre in the world when he left the AB's. </p><p>Conrad Smith came into a Wellington team where he spent what? 7 seasons ? learning his trade from the great Tana Umaga.</p><p>Conrad Smith had great talent but he wasn't born to be the greatest centre in the world, here's the tip, it takes years and years to become that great at the top level.</p><p>He was slow cooked and steeped in all the fine arts of becoming a midfield general by the best we had, Tana was a monster at centre and had he been injury free I think we would have most likely won the 2003 RWC in Aussie. He was that good. He had huge charisma among the team, a talisman and a pocket battleship.</p><p>He had a great rugby brain as well but the size and strength to be a monster on defence. Tana also had pace, he spent several seasons on the wing for the AB's before the transition to centre.</p><p>Continuity; there has been a long and little broken line of great AB centres going back as far as the legendary Bruce Robertson.</p><p>Conrad, Tana, Bunce, Craig Innes, Smokin' Joe Stanley, Bruce Robertson.</p><p>Some of these players were blessed with excellent second fives alongside them that became long term pairings.</p><p>Nonu was second 5 to Tana and Conrad, Walter little (2nd 5 to Innes and then Bunce), Innes was 2nd 5 to Stanley at Auckland, Warwick Taylor was 2nd 5 to Innes and Stanley, Aaron Mauger, the great Bill Osborne as understudy to Robertson and so forth, these guys gave great service to their respective centres.</p><p></p><p>Malakai Fekitoa is still a kid in the role of centre. He is only 24 years old, that is a baby in terms of being an international centre.</p><p>It takes 'years' to make a great international centre. Literally years. They are made, not born.</p><p>He has what 18 caps? 12 of those were 5-10 minute jobs at the end of a game filling in for a tired Smith or Nonu.</p><p>The guy deserves a chance.</p><p>He's got real talent and inside him he doesn't have a monster like Nonu crashing through tackles, breaking the line and offloading, he has another very young All Black who is showing a good skill set as well in Crotty (I'm not a fan of Crotty but the kid is turning me around with his performances)</p><p>Go back and watch the Pumas game again and watch for Fekiitoa. He hardly puts a foot wrong all game. His defence is massive, and as the NZ herald said when he first came into the side for an injured Conrad in 2014, "Fekitoa had a great game, he offers more on attack than the veteran centre" He demands that the opposition tackle him (in much the same way as Moala who I am a fan of...)</p><p>Now I wanted to watch Fekitoa because I was concerned that he wasn't pulling his weight in the midfield and I wanted to point the finger and grumble "Bloody useless mate..." etc. For me the jury is still out on him but I am more confident in his ability and that he IS learning after scrutinising his performance. The kid is a slow burner but I put it to you gentlemen that 2nd 5 and centre are positions that literally require years of development at International level.</p><p>Players like Jason Little, Jaques Fourie, Japie Mulder, Will Greenwood, Phillippe Sella and the list of all black centres above, they need time to mature and ferment their skill sets and I mean years, not games in a single season.</p><p>Look at Nonu, what a frustrating mongrel he was for many seasons. He showed huge talent coupled with an infuriating ability to get isolated from his team and turn the ball over, he didn't see when to give the pass because he was focussed on busting the line himself and squandered try scoring opportunities time after time. He wore eye liner for two years because he thought that was what the NFL blokes were doing to combat floodlight glare... I can remember being at Twickenham many seasons ago and after the game the AB's were descending the stairs after receiving their winners medal, and I was about ten people back gathered in there throng admiring our best export and when he came down I shouted"Fa'afine" because of the eye liner nonsense, the crowd around me laughed as his head swirled around like the predator with a murderous look on his face and i thought in that moment I was about to die LOL... but the management persisted with him and after many seasons playing initially alongside Tana and then Conrad, he clicked and became the great player we all knew and loved and still love and we are grateful for his truly awesome performances in the black jersey. If I had a gold nugget for overtime I shouted "You bloody idiot' at the tv for his errors in the first half of his international career i would be King Midas but he came good. The coaches were right.</p><p>I was wrong.</p><p>He did come good and then some.</p><p>A few players get a long run in the AB's midfield and get a lot of caps but never 'click' the way that the great players do.</p><p>Look at Bernie McCahill and Alama Iremia, both talented players but they are not icons of the black jersey because they never made it to the final development level.</p><p>Fekitoa has ten years ahead of him to forge his abilities and skill set with his powerful natural talent. Maybe he will make the jump, maybe not, but he deserves a chance to be in the mix because the kid has got talent and Larksea, you must MUST remember that these midfield positions take a long time to develop into... much longer than most other positions in the team and they are crucial.</p><p>Lastly, if you don't like this line of discourse, fair enough but please have a look at what Mr Hansen has been doing.</p><p>He is clearly, no mug. </p><p>He knows how many beans make 5 and if he's chosen Fekitoa to be in the mix, on form, Fekitoa's been there or thereabouts for the last 2 and a half seasons getting tidbits and living off scraps while he waited his turn at the trough.</p><p>If SBW comes back strong and fast then it's likely that Crotty,/Fekitoa/Moala will be put on the bench to make way for the tried and true very seasoned midfield powerhouse. Thats how it works if you are to have 'continuity'.</p><p> I reckon old Shag's onto something and maybe we're not. Looking at his results and the way he does things I'm inclined to sit back and watch the development of these kids ; Crotty, Fekitoa, Moala and whomever else Mr Hansen sees fit to grace the black jersey with...</p><p></p><p>On Julian Savea... I'm not convinced there is a better winger in NZ.</p><p>Yes his performances are up and down.</p><p>Outside of the mercurial Terry Wright every All Black winger I've ever seen going back to the legendary Brian Williams in the early 1970's has had ups and downs and spells where the ball didn't come to them or sit up for them. Grant Batty, Stu Wilson, Bernie Fraser (ebony and ivory) the great JK, Marc Ellis, the dual international Jeff Wilson, the mighty and blessed Jonah (RIP big man) , Twiggy-Mala (Vaiaga ;-) ) John Timu , Craig Green, Rokocoko, Dougie Howlett et al they all had moments when they weren't the best they could be and there was speculation they could be dropped.</p><p>Savea is still a kid at 26 just turned. He's a young fullah and he has a try scoring record only a person who is cerebrally disadvantaged would ignore.</p><p>If he is as at the level you are expressing then why is he constantly on Mr Hansens team sheet?</p><p>I was at the Millennium stadium when the Bus demolished three very large French players in the RWC quarter final and powered over the line and the headlines the next day were all drawing comparisons to the mighty and blessed Jonah (RIP big man) </p><p>Julian Savea is one of those kinds of players who can look bit lack lustre playing provincial or even Super Rugby but when he dons the blackness he lifts to another level and brings his A game. He is growing up in the spotlight and his game is getting better, not diminishing.</p><p>I'm gonna go with MR Hansen on this one.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Jones Boy, post: 816244, member: 70721"] Hey Larksea, I'm glad you raised these issues because there is a plethora of discussion points here to be raised. In an earlier post you mentioned that Conrad Smith always made the right decision and he rarely kicked etc. It's true it did appear that way, and he did so much more for the AB's than just this, his defensive organisation of the backline, his leadership, his lightning fast vision to anticipate counter attack opportunities, his under rated pace, the list goes on, but Conrad was the best centre in the world when he left the AB's. Conrad Smith came into a Wellington team where he spent what? 7 seasons ? learning his trade from the great Tana Umaga. Conrad Smith had great talent but he wasn't born to be the greatest centre in the world, here's the tip, it takes years and years to become that great at the top level. He was slow cooked and steeped in all the fine arts of becoming a midfield general by the best we had, Tana was a monster at centre and had he been injury free I think we would have most likely won the 2003 RWC in Aussie. He was that good. He had huge charisma among the team, a talisman and a pocket battleship. He had a great rugby brain as well but the size and strength to be a monster on defence. Tana also had pace, he spent several seasons on the wing for the AB's before the transition to centre. Continuity; there has been a long and little broken line of great AB centres going back as far as the legendary Bruce Robertson. Conrad, Tana, Bunce, Craig Innes, Smokin' Joe Stanley, Bruce Robertson. Some of these players were blessed with excellent second fives alongside them that became long term pairings. Nonu was second 5 to Tana and Conrad, Walter little (2nd 5 to Innes and then Bunce), Innes was 2nd 5 to Stanley at Auckland, Warwick Taylor was 2nd 5 to Innes and Stanley, Aaron Mauger, the great Bill Osborne as understudy to Robertson and so forth, these guys gave great service to their respective centres. Malakai Fekitoa is still a kid in the role of centre. He is only 24 years old, that is a baby in terms of being an international centre. It takes 'years' to make a great international centre. Literally years. They are made, not born. He has what 18 caps? 12 of those were 5-10 minute jobs at the end of a game filling in for a tired Smith or Nonu. The guy deserves a chance. He's got real talent and inside him he doesn't have a monster like Nonu crashing through tackles, breaking the line and offloading, he has another very young All Black who is showing a good skill set as well in Crotty (I'm not a fan of Crotty but the kid is turning me around with his performances) Go back and watch the Pumas game again and watch for Fekiitoa. He hardly puts a foot wrong all game. His defence is massive, and as the NZ herald said when he first came into the side for an injured Conrad in 2014, "Fekitoa had a great game, he offers more on attack than the veteran centre" He demands that the opposition tackle him (in much the same way as Moala who I am a fan of...) Now I wanted to watch Fekitoa because I was concerned that he wasn't pulling his weight in the midfield and I wanted to point the finger and grumble "Bloody useless mate..." etc. For me the jury is still out on him but I am more confident in his ability and that he IS learning after scrutinising his performance. The kid is a slow burner but I put it to you gentlemen that 2nd 5 and centre are positions that literally require years of development at International level. Players like Jason Little, Jaques Fourie, Japie Mulder, Will Greenwood, Phillippe Sella and the list of all black centres above, they need time to mature and ferment their skill sets and I mean years, not games in a single season. Look at Nonu, what a frustrating mongrel he was for many seasons. He showed huge talent coupled with an infuriating ability to get isolated from his team and turn the ball over, he didn't see when to give the pass because he was focussed on busting the line himself and squandered try scoring opportunities time after time. He wore eye liner for two years because he thought that was what the NFL blokes were doing to combat floodlight glare... I can remember being at Twickenham many seasons ago and after the game the AB's were descending the stairs after receiving their winners medal, and I was about ten people back gathered in there throng admiring our best export and when he came down I shouted"Fa'afine" because of the eye liner nonsense, the crowd around me laughed as his head swirled around like the predator with a murderous look on his face and i thought in that moment I was about to die LOL... but the management persisted with him and after many seasons playing initially alongside Tana and then Conrad, he clicked and became the great player we all knew and loved and still love and we are grateful for his truly awesome performances in the black jersey. If I had a gold nugget for overtime I shouted "You bloody idiot' at the tv for his errors in the first half of his international career i would be King Midas but he came good. The coaches were right. I was wrong. He did come good and then some. A few players get a long run in the AB's midfield and get a lot of caps but never 'click' the way that the great players do. Look at Bernie McCahill and Alama Iremia, both talented players but they are not icons of the black jersey because they never made it to the final development level. Fekitoa has ten years ahead of him to forge his abilities and skill set with his powerful natural talent. Maybe he will make the jump, maybe not, but he deserves a chance to be in the mix because the kid has got talent and Larksea, you must MUST remember that these midfield positions take a long time to develop into... much longer than most other positions in the team and they are crucial. Lastly, if you don't like this line of discourse, fair enough but please have a look at what Mr Hansen has been doing. He is clearly, no mug. He knows how many beans make 5 and if he's chosen Fekitoa to be in the mix, on form, Fekitoa's been there or thereabouts for the last 2 and a half seasons getting tidbits and living off scraps while he waited his turn at the trough. If SBW comes back strong and fast then it's likely that Crotty,/Fekitoa/Moala will be put on the bench to make way for the tried and true very seasoned midfield powerhouse. Thats how it works if you are to have 'continuity'. I reckon old Shag's onto something and maybe we're not. Looking at his results and the way he does things I'm inclined to sit back and watch the development of these kids ; Crotty, Fekitoa, Moala and whomever else Mr Hansen sees fit to grace the black jersey with... On Julian Savea... I'm not convinced there is a better winger in NZ. Yes his performances are up and down. Outside of the mercurial Terry Wright every All Black winger I've ever seen going back to the legendary Brian Williams in the early 1970's has had ups and downs and spells where the ball didn't come to them or sit up for them. Grant Batty, Stu Wilson, Bernie Fraser (ebony and ivory) the great JK, Marc Ellis, the dual international Jeff Wilson, the mighty and blessed Jonah (RIP big man) , Twiggy-Mala (Vaiaga ;-) ) John Timu , Craig Green, Rokocoko, Dougie Howlett et al they all had moments when they weren't the best they could be and there was speculation they could be dropped. Savea is still a kid at 26 just turned. He's a young fullah and he has a try scoring record only a person who is cerebrally disadvantaged would ignore. If he is as at the level you are expressing then why is he constantly on Mr Hansens team sheet? I was at the Millennium stadium when the Bus demolished three very large French players in the RWC quarter final and powered over the line and the headlines the next day were all drawing comparisons to the mighty and blessed Jonah (RIP big man) Julian Savea is one of those kinds of players who can look bit lack lustre playing provincial or even Super Rugby but when he dons the blackness he lifts to another level and brings his A game. He is growing up in the spotlight and his game is getting better, not diminishing. I'm gonna go with MR Hansen on this one. [/QUOTE]
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[2016 Rugby Championship] New Zealand v Argentina (10/09/2016)
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