[2015 Super Rugby] South African Pre-season Discussion

[TRF_heineken]

Okay so I thought it would be a good idea to start the season off with a Warm-Up thread.

And this weekend is the start of the Warm-up matches.

The Bulls will play the Cheetahs in my hometown, which has become some sort of tradition. Last year it was this game in which Arno Botha and Pierre Spies got injured.

Here are the teams for the weekend:

Bulls:

15 Jesse Kriel, 14 Travis Ismaiel, 13 JJ Engelbrecht, 12 William Small-Smith, 11 Jamba Ulengo, 10 Jacques-Louis Potgieter, 9 Rudy Paige, 8 Hanro Liebenberg, 7 Lappies Labuschagne, 6 Deon Stegmann (captain), 5 Marvin Orie, 4 Jacques du Plessis, 3 Werner Kruger, 2 Bandise Maku, 1 Trevor Nyakane

Substitutes (from): Callie Visagie, Morné Mellett, Dayan van der Westhuizen, Nicolaas Janse van Rensburg, Grant Hattingh, Roelof Smit, Nardus van der Walt, Arno Botha, Piet van Zyl, Tian Schoeman, Dan Kriel, Ulrich Beyers, Duncan Matthews, Jürgen Visser

Cheetahs:
15 Coenie van Wyk, 14 Raymond Rhule, 13 JW Jonker, 12 Francois Venter, 11 Sergeal Petersen, 10 Joe Pietersen, 9 Sarel Pretorius, 8 Willie Britz, 7 Tienie Burger, 6 Jean Cook, 5 Francois Uys (captain), 4 Lodewyk de Jager, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Torsten van Jaarsveld, 1 Danie Mienie

Substitutes: 16 BG Uys, 17 Ewald van der Westhuizen, 18 Maks van Dyk, 19 Stephan Coetzee, 20 Carl Wegner, 21 Carel Greeff, 22 Armandt Koster, 23 Tian Meyer, 24 Francois Brummer, 25 Ryno Benjamin, 26 Oupa Mohoje, 27 Clayton Blommetjies, 28 Willie le Roux

 

[goodNumber10]

Bulls are also playing Saracens on the 31st of January:
http://www.rugby365.com/article/64033-spies-returns-to-tackle-sarries

Squad includes Spies and Pollard.

Bulls touring squad: Jurgen Visser, Jesse Kriel, Akona Ndungane, Bjorn Basson, Travis Ismaiel, JJ Engelbrecht, Jan Serfontein, William Small-Smith, Handrè Pollard, Jacques-Louis Potgieter, Francois Hougaard, Piet Van Zyl, Rudy Paige, Pierre Spies, Hanro Liebenberg, Pieter Labushagne, Deon Stegmann, Roelof Smit, RG Snyman, Marvin Orie, Victor Matfield, Grant Hattingh, Jacques Du Plessis, Trevor Nyakane, Werner Kruger, Dean Greyling, Mornè Mellett, Marcel Van Der Merwe, Bandise Maku, Callie Visagie.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Bulls have decent warm up games. Hope the Stormers aren't undercooked for the round 1 fixture at Loftus like last year..

Good to see Arno Botha back and Jacques du Plessis trialed at lock where I think his future lies.

The Bulls have a quality pack this year- almost a Bok B pack if you take the Bok A pack as a mix of Stormers (Malherbe, Etzebeth and Vermeulen) and Sharks (Mtawarira, Du Plessis, Du Toit, Coetzee and Alberts) players. The bigger question is how will their young backline go.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Bulls have decent warm up games. Hope the Stormers aren't undercooked for the round 1 fixture at Loftus like last year..

Good to see Arno Botha back and Jacques du Plessis trialed at lock where I think his future lies.

The Bulls have a quality pack this year- almost a Bok B pack if you take the Bok A pack as a mix of Stormers (Malherbe, Etzebeth and Vermeulen) and Sharks (Mtawarira, Du Plessis, Du Toit, Coetzee and Alberts) players. The bigger question is how will their young backline go.

Yup, that is the big question. I'm hoping they will perform, as they have made so many comments that the focus this year will be on a more attacking style of rugby.

I will be attending this first warm-up game (it's nice when you can get free tickets).

Will give you guys a report next week on the game.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they performed even if only later on; my expectationt would be that it'll take a few games to get used to playing an adjusted game but I have to say I think a more 'ball-in-hand' approach would suite these youngsters. Hougaard and Pollard are halves who were born too take on the line more while Jesse Kriel, Odendaal and Serfontein aren't too shabby ball in hand either. Just very very green. I am waiting to see who will wing it for the Bulls. I am hoping for Ulengo and Engelbrecht.

On the Storm front;

http://www.superxv.com/45209/1/vermeulen-leads-stormers-in-super-rugby-warm-up#.VL5XCEeUdYc

Stormers
15. Cheslin Kolbe , 14. EW Viljoen , 13. Juan de Jongh (vice-captain) , 12. Damian de Allende , 11. Dillyn Leyds , 10. Kurt Coleman , 9. Nic Groom , 8. Duane Vermeulen (captain) , 7. Michael Rhodes , 6. Rynhardt Elstadt , 5. Manuel Carizza , 4. Gerbrandt Grobler , 3. Vincent Koch , 2. Scarra Ntubeni , 1. Steven Kitshoff
Replacements: 16. Bongi Mbonambi , 17. Oliver Kebble , 18. Wilco Louw , 19. Jurie van Vuuren , 20. Neil Rautenbach , 21. Michael Willemse , 22. Sikhumbuzo Notshe , 23. Louis Schreuder , 24. Demetri Catrakilis , 25. Huw Jones , 26. Jaco Taute , 27. Godlen Masimla , 28. Robert du Preez

Team to take on the SWD Eagles. Coetzee not holding back I see! Other than the expected non-starters (Howard with Munster on loan, Senatla with the Blitzbokke, Burger in Japan, Etzebeth and Malherbe being eased back in from injury and JdV long term injury) that is pretty much our best side though I am missing Kobus van Wyk on the wing. Wait, also no Carr or Kolisi? Well, we won't need them for teh Eages I'd imagine. 12) De Allende, 13) JdJ and 15) Kolbe are the right calls going forwards IMO- I don't take those types of calls for granted any more.

In other news, local media says we are flirting with Jano Vermaak. I'll post a link in the transfer rumors section. Left a bit late if you ask me and I can't imagine Toulouse would see their way clear to releasing him for us. I like Groom though. I don't think he is test class but he is a good one to get the backline going. Hoe Rob du Preez gets a go at 10 and it'll be interesting to see what happens with 3 fullbacks out wide (all of Kolbe, Lleyds and Viljoen) so I expect Taute will be center cover rather than fullback cover.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Is there a Super XV fixture list anywhere which includes the warm up games?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Is there a Super XV fixture list anywhere which includes the warm up games?

No there isn't. Most of them aren't even televised matches so I doubt there will be a scheduled list. The other problem is that some matches might not take place, like 2 years ago when the Bulls cancelled their last warm-up match against the Pumas.

 

[Every Time Ref]

OK, cheers. Looks like I'll just have to wait for the real games to kick off, I was assuming some would be on Sky over here

 

[TRF_heineken]

OK, cheers. Looks like I'll just have to wait for the real games to kick off, I was assuming some would be on Sky over here

I think the Bulls vs. Saffacens would be on sky... I know it's being shown live on Supersport, which is an affiliate of Sky.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I've given up on warm up matches. I've always thought they might provide an indication of possible left field pick ups for fantasy rugby but that has never been the case; the coaches always experiment with line-ups and usually the opposition are either experimental sides as well or just not up too scratch making all the rookies in the experimental teams look disproportionately good.

A bit off topic but in line with my train of thought here but this year is going to be tough managig fantasy sides what with the ABs resting players for two weeks on top of byes and the injuries on always expect will come into contention. Bloody Rugby world cup!

 

[TRF_heineken]

I've given up on warm up matches. I've always thought they might provide an indication of possible left field pick ups for fantasy rugby but that has never been the case; the coaches always experiment with line-ups and usually the opposition are either experimental sides as well or just not up too scratch making all the rookies in the experimental teams look disproportionately good.

A bit off topic but in line with my train of thought here but this year is going to be tough managig fantasy sides what with the ABs resting players for two weeks on top of byes and the injuries on always expect will come into contention. Bloody Rugby world cup!

Yeah, I've made the decision not to participate in fantasy sides this year. One reason being that for a long time there are way too many unknown factors, and I know I won't be able to make intelligent decision in picking a squad.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Okay, So here's my report back after watching the Bulls vs. Cheetahs game.

Let's start with the Score. Halftime it was 6-6. Final score was Bulls 30 - 11 Cheetahs.

What did I think of the game: The first 50 minutes was boring. The guys were very rusty and made countless handling errors. there was about 20 Scrums just in the first half.

Something positive: The guys are fit. It was bloody hot in Polokwane. At kick-off time it was 34 degrees celcius. Nobody pulled cramps, there was no stoppage for drinks, and the guys did a lot of running.

The tackling was also something that got the most cheers out of the spectators. it was a real "Koppestamp" type match. Nobody holding back, and there was a few cringeworthy tackles.

Who impressed me: Cheetahs: Joe Pietersen, Willie Brits, Danie Mienie and Lood de Jager. The Cheetahs did most of the defending in the match, and Lood, Willie and Danie made a lot of tackles. Willie also made quite a few busting runs. Joe Pietersen was a calm cool customer. Slotted the kicks he got, which was all inside his own half.

Bulls: Travis Ismaiel, Hanro Liebenberg, Piet van Zyl, Jesse Kriel and Lappies Labuschagne. Let me start with Travis Ismaiel, this guy was my MOTM. He's a big and fast winger. He outsprinted JJ Engelbrecht and Raymond Rhule at one point in the second half to the ball, and made a very nice flick off to van Zyl to score his second try.

Piet van Zyl and Jesse Kriel was attacking and testing the cheetahs with kicks and runs the whole game, and Jesse also made some good chases off kicks.

Lappies was the guy who probably took the most hits. It was like the Bulls wanted to feed him to the lions, and the tacklers obliged by trying to nail him everytime, the times he didn't have the ball, he was competing at the rucks, and he and Deon Stegmann stole a lot of balls at the rucks.

In Conclusion: It was just a warm-up match, nothing much to get excited about. The guys are still rusty, and need to work on their ball-handling.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I hope the mods don't penalise me for this back-to-back posts.

The Bulls vs. Saracens game is televised and kick off will be at 17:15 CAT on Supersport 1 on Saturday.

Bandise Maku has been ruled out for the rest of the season with a Pectoral Muscle injury.

Handre Pollard has been declared fully fit and is expected to play on Saturday. Other players have minor ****les that played this past weekend, but all will train today with the squad.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I hope the mods don't penalise me for this back-to-back posts.

The Bulls vs. Saracens game is televised and kick off will be at 17:15 CAT on Supersport 1 on Saturday.

Bandise Maku has been ruled out for the rest of the season with a Pectoral Muscle injury.

Handre Pollard has been declared fully fit and is expected to play on Saturday. Other players have minor ****les that played this past weekend, but all will train today with the squad.

We are discussing banning you in the staff section- will get back to you ;P

On a more serious note it's a pity about Maku. I've always had a lot of time for the man besides the fact that I don't wish injury on anybody. Good job for the Bulls hooker is now a position where they have depth in quality.

Wonder what sort of team Sarries will put out; they are pushing for a Premiership ***e and are still in wit a big shout in the Euro Champs Cup (QF against my Euro team RM92 no less) as well so I don't expect they'll go all out here though I might be wrong. In any case this will be more challenging than what us Stormers can look forward too ITO the pre-season. I worry we'll be undercoocked facing your boys the first week away from home.. again.

 

[Bull]

I don't expect Saracens to pick a full strength team, I assume a number of their players are also on 6N duty.

Glad that Jacques du Plessis is getting another run at 4 as this gives the Bulls a more versatile back row.

 

[TheSaffycen]

The game will be on at 3pm on BT Sport over here.
We probably wont have Owen Farrell (injury) Brad Barritt (Intl' duty) George Kruis (Intl' Duty) Alex Goode (Intl' Duty) Chris Ashton (Intl' Duty) Will Fraser (Injury) Jim Hamilton (Intl' Duty) Mako & Billy Vunipola (Intl' Duty) Richard Wigglesworth (Intl' Duty)
So from who we could play-
1.Barrington 2.George 3.Johnston 4.Itoje 5.Hargreaves 6.Brown 7.Burger 8.Joubert 9.De Kock 10.Hodgson 11.Ellery 12.Bosch 13.Streather 14.Wyles 15.Ransom
If he plays watch out for Maro Itoje, best player we've ever produced possibly and will likely be future England captain.

 

[TRF_heineken]

We are discussing banning you in the staff section- will get back to you ;P

On a more serious note it's a pity about Maku. I've always had a lot of time for the man besides the fact that I don't wish injury on anybody. Good job for the Bulls hooker is now a position where they have depth in quality.

Wonder what sort of team Sarries will put out; they are pushing for a Premiership ***e and are still in wit a big shout in the Euro Champs Cup (QF against my Euro team RM92 no less) as well so I don't expect they'll go all out here though I might be wrong. In any case this will be more challenging than what us Stormers can look forward too ITO the pre-season. I worry we'll be undercoocked facing your boys the first week away from home.. again.

Yeah. But one thing that is interesting is that the Bulls haven't announced their final squad yet. They have time until the 31st of January to announce the final squad, which is Saturday. My guess is that they will wait until the very last moment to announce their team in case they have more guys added to the list along with Maku.

We still have Adriaan Strauss and Callie Visagie at hooker, and I think Callie's younger brother will now be added as the 3rd hooker option for the Bulls.

I'm curious to see the teams that will run out on Saturday.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The game will be on at 3pm on BT Sport over here.
We probably wont have Owen Farrell (injury) Brad Barritt (Intl' duty) George Kruis (Intl' Duty) Alex Goode (Intl' Duty) Chris Ashton (Intl' Duty) Will Fraser (Injury) Jim Hamilton (Intl' Duty) Mako & Billy Vunipola (Intl' Duty) Richard Wigglesworth (Intl' Duty)
So from who we could play-
1.Barrington 2.George 3.Johnston 4.Itoje 5.Hargreaves 6.Brown 7.Burger 8.Joubert 9.De Kock 10.Hodgson 11.Ellery 12.Bosch 13.Streather 14.Wyles 15.Ransom
If he plays watch out for Maro Itoje, best player we've ever produced possibly and will likely be future England captain.

I remember Itoje; he was basically the difference for England aganst SA last in last year's IRB Junior world championship.. might be the year before I am not so good with time perception. A very athletic lock if I remember correctly. On Bosch- is that the Argentine Marcello Bosch or the ex-WP Paul Bosch? Previous to him leavign I saw Paul Bosch as Jean de Villiers' replacement at 12 for WP/Stormers. I havn't been able to keep track of his carreer.

@heineken, between Strauss and Visagie you are very much sorted at hooker. Only the Sharks have a better line-up in the position in this competition maybe not even that as I almost want to say I prefer Strauss ahead of Du Plessis in SR (not as tight as test rugby) and it's touch and go between Visagie and Cooper.. okay, I've convinced myself; the Bulls still have the best line-up in the hookers in this competition. Marcel van der Merwe, Trevor Nyakane, Morne Mellett, Werner Kruger and an in-form again Dean Greyling in the props and all of Flip van der Merwe, Victor Matfield and Jacques du Plessis at lock? I have the Crusaders down as able to put forward a better starting tight 5 but if it comes down to depth I have the Bulls ahead of the rest ITO quality of tight forward players.

 

[goodNumber10]

I remember Itoje; he was basically the difference for England aganst SA last in last year's IRB Junior world championship.. might be the year before I am not so good with time perception. A very athletic lock if I remember correctly. On Bosch- is that the Argentine Marcello Bosch or the ex-WP Paul Bosch? Previous to him leavign I saw Paul Bosch as Jean de Villiers' replacement at 12 for WP/Stormers. I havn't been able to keep track of his carreer.

@heineken, between Strauss and Visagie you are very much sorted at hooker. Only the Sharks have a better line-up in the position in this competition maybe not even that as I almost want to say I prefer Strauss ahead of Du Plessis in SR (not as tight as test rugby) and it's touch and go between Visagie and Cooper.. okay, I've convinced myself; the Bulls still have the best line-up in the hookers in this competition. Marcel van der Merwe, Trevor Nyakane, Morne Mellett, Werner Kruger and an in-form again Dean Greyling in the props and all of Flip van der Merwe, Victor Matfield and Jacques du Plessis at lock? I have the Crusaders down as able to put forward a better starting tight 5 but if it comes down to depth I have the Bulls ahead of the rest ITO quality of tight forward players.

Marcello Bosch - Argentinian

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Ah, thanks for getting back. A couple of handy players in that possible Sarries team still.