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Well at the top I will start by saying yes 12 isn't a 10 which is what I'm pointing out.

1. Where has Madigan played a high amout of rugby against decent opposition at 10 on international stage? Again you can't answer can you? Where is clear viewing he's by far the better 10 as you say and that it's a mistake starting Keatley. You still can't answer.

2. Not irrelevant as I stated clearly in reference to your point but again you shy away. So 2 down 2 you can't answer lets try 3.

3. I backed up my Zebo analysis with stats and can show examples. I've asked you to do same regards Madigan and well I think only stuff I got was BG* or Feic in other thread saying Madigan can do alot of thing but he's not a great kicker. I'd agree with them but again no answer so thats 3 from 3 you can't answer unless you can show few games he's kicked masterfully. His goal kicking is superb I will add I'm not disputing that.

4. My point was Schmidt had influence over Madigan that week and Madigan was told try kick tacticfully (as was said today) and he failed badly there. Again I'm only refferring to his tacticful kicking. So again it has point.

5. I stated Keatley's recent form has been average yes. But Madigan hasn't got games at 10 only drips and drabs and none in high profile games to really say he's been equal never mind better.

6. But Keatley can bring in centres to a game. Can he do it as well as Madigan. Probably not as Madigan is probably stronger in this area. But at times Madigan goes off the script doing his own thing which in my opinion helps him be a great player and is a bigger asset against tiring legs. But in my eyes Keatley is clearly the better structured 10 for Schmidts plan.

I'm not falling out with you just simply showing that Keatley isn't the worst 10 as your describing, I'm not saying he is best either but it's very tight. And I'm not saying it as a Munster vs Leinster thing either. If I were you know my views on Jordi but I take it as face value and said I won't argue on him starting. If I were picking team I'd have TOD with SOB or POM at 6 and other at 8. And that's my Munster eyes spaeking but I admit I've watched Leinster and Jordi has done well so can understand his place.

Also Boss- I've commented WTF etc but he did outplay Marmion and more worryingly as was said to me - Marmion has never played well under Schmidt and doesn't seem comfortable with Ireland. That's no reflection on coaching by the way I just hope he can bring his game to next level.

<blockquote data-quote="munstermuffin" data-source="post: 705842" data-attributes="member: 39240">Well at the top I will start by saying yes 12 isn&#039;t a 10 which is what I&#039;m pointing out.1. Where has Madigan played a high amout of rugby against decent opposition at 10 on international stage? Again you can&#039;t answer can you? Where is clear viewing he&#039;s by far the better 10 as you say and that it&#039;s a mistake starting Keatley. You still can&#039;t answer.2. Not irrelevant as I stated clearly in reference to your point but again you shy away. So 2 down 2 you can&#039;t answer lets try 3.3. I backed up my Zebo analysis with stats and can show examples. I&#039;ve asked you to do same regards Madigan and well I think only stuff I got was BG* or Feic in other thread saying Madigan can do alot of thing but he&#039;s not a great kicker. I&#039;d agree with them but again no answer so thats 3 from 3 you can&#039;t answer unless you can show few games he&#039;s kicked masterfully. His goal kicking is superb I will add I&#039;m not disputing that.4. My point was Schmidt had influence over Madigan that week and Madigan was told try kick tacticfully (as was said today) and he failed badly there. Again I&#039;m only refferring to his tacticful kicking. So again it has point.5. I stated Keatley&#039;s recent form has been average yes. But Madigan hasn&#039;t got games at 10 only drips and drabs and none in high profile games to really say he&#039;s been equal never mind better.6. But Keatley can bring in centres to a game. Can he do it as well as Madigan. Probably not as Madigan is probably stronger in this area. But at times Madigan goes off the script doing his own thing which in my opinion helps him be a great player and is a bigger asset against tiring legs. But in my eyes Keatley is clearly the better structured 10 for Schmidts plan.I&#039;m not falling out with you just simply showing that Keatley isn&#039;t the worst 10 as your describing, I&#039;m not saying he is best either but it&#039;s very tight. And I&#039;m not saying it as a Munster vs Leinster thing either. If I were you know my views on Jordi but I take it as face value and said I won&#039;t argue on him starting. If I were picking team I&#039;d have TOD with SOB or POM at 6 and other at 8. And that&#039;s my Munster eyes spaeking but I admit I&#039;ve watched Leinster and Jordi has done well so can understand his place.Also Boss- I&#039;ve commented WTF etc but he did outplay Marmion and more worryingly as was said to me - Marmion has never played well under Schmidt and doesn&#039;t seem comfortable with Ireland. That&#039;s no reflection on coaching by the way I just hope he can bring his game to next level.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="munstermuffin, post: 705842, member: 39240"] Well at the top I will start by saying yes 12 isn't a 10 which is what I'm pointing out. 1. Where has Madigan played a high amout of rugby against decent opposition at 10 on international stage? Again you can't answer can you? Where is clear viewing he's by far the better 10 as you say and that it's a mistake starting Keatley. You still can't answer. 2. Not irrelevant as I stated clearly in reference to your point but again you shy away. So 2 down 2 you can't answer lets try 3. 3. I backed up my Zebo analysis with stats and can show examples. I've asked you to do same regards Madigan and well I think only stuff I got was BG* or Feic in other thread saying Madigan can do alot of thing but he's not a great kicker. I'd agree with them but again no answer so thats 3 from 3 you can't answer unless you can show few games he's kicked masterfully. His goal kicking is superb I will add I'm not disputing that. 4. My point was Schmidt had influence over Madigan that week and Madigan was told try kick tacticfully (as was said today) and he failed badly there. Again I'm only refferring to his tacticful kicking. So again it has point. 5. I stated Keatley's recent form has been average yes. But Madigan hasn't got games at 10 only drips and drabs and none in high profile games to really say he's been equal never mind better. 6. But Keatley can bring in centres to a game. Can he do it as well as Madigan. Probably not as Madigan is probably stronger in this area. But at times Madigan goes off the script doing his own thing which in my opinion helps him be a great player and is a bigger asset against tiring legs. But in my eyes Keatley is clearly the better structured 10 for Schmidts plan. I'm not falling out with you just simply showing that Keatley isn't the worst 10 as your describing, I'm not saying he is best either but it's very tight. And I'm not saying it as a Munster vs Leinster thing either. If I were you know my views on Jordi but I take it as face value and said I won't argue on him starting. If I were picking team I'd have TOD with SOB or POM at 6 and other at 8. And that's my Munster eyes spaeking but I admit I've watched Leinster and Jordi has done well so can understand his place. Also Boss- I've commented WTF etc but he did outplay Marmion and more worryingly as was said to me - Marmion has never played well under Schmidt and doesn't seem comfortable with Ireland. That's no reflection on coaching by the way I just hope he can bring his game to next level. [/QUOTE]