[2014 TRC] The Rugby Championship XV

[iINDOMINUSxx]

since its near the end off the rugby championship what do you think the championship XV will be i think it will be something like this

1.) James Slipper (AUS)
2.) Agustin Creevy (ARG)
3.) Sekope Kepu (AUS)
4.) Brodie Retallick (NZL)
5.) Eben Etzebeth (RSA)
6.) Marcell Coetzee (RSA)
7.) Michael Hooper (AUS)
8.) Duane Vermeulen (RSA)
9.) Tomás Cubelli (ARG)
10.) Bernard Foley (AUS)
11.) Julian Savea (NZL)
12.) Juan De Villiers (RSA)
13.) Tevita Kuridrani (AUS)
14.) Ben Smith (NZL)
15.) Israel Folau (AUS)

 

[Big Ewis]

I agree with a lot of those. I'd just definitely have Ayerza and Herrera for my props. Well let me just do a XV:

1.) Marcos Ayerza (ARG)
2.) Agustin Creevy (ARG)
3.) Ramiro Herrera (ARG)
4.) Brodie Retallick (NZL)
5.) Sam Whitelock (NZL)
6.) Marcell Coetzee (RSA)
7.) Michael Hooper (AUS)
8.) Duane Vermeulen (RSA)
9.) Aaron Smith (NZL)
10.) I don't know. Cruden's missed too many games, Barrett is good but not brilliant, I don't think Foley was great...maybe Nicolas Sanchez.
11.) Julian Savea (NZL)
12.) Jean De Villiers (RSA)
13.) Tevita Kuridrani (AUS)
14.) Ben Smith (NZL)
15.) Israel Folau (AUS)

 

[petite]

8 Read
7 mccoy
10 sanchez specialy because he played under more preasuse than anyone else
15 dagg
For the rest i agree whith ewis

Tomas cubelli? Hes even behind landajo

 

[Big Ewis]

8 Read
7 mccoy
10 sanchez specialy because he played under more preasuse than anyone else
15 dagg
For the rest i agree whith ewis

Tomas cubelli? Hes even behind landajo

excellent picks, man. Definitely resisted the Vermeulen temptation for a while but then just had to give in. Man was on a mission this year. McCaw was really good, but not Hoopah good. Hooper has all those dimensions to his game. Make way for the youth, no ? Cubelli's damn good and he's the Pumas' second option only. Another Argie 9 I like a lot is Oyonnax's Figuerolla. But Aaron Smith is pure. Yeah I think I'll pick Sanchez after all at 10. And Dagg I hesitated a lot too, despite many kiwis themselves not being big fans apparently. But Folau's work went relatively unnoticed, but he beat a lot of defenders and ran his usual mileage too.

 

[petite]

excellent picks, man. Definitely resisted the Vermeulen temptation for a while but then just had to give in. Man was on a mission this year. McCaw was really good, but not Hoopah good. Hooper has all those dimensions to his game. Make way for the youth, no ? Cubelli's damn good and he's the Pumas' second option only. Another Argie 9 I like a lot is Oyonnax's Figuerolla. But Aaron Smith is pure. Yeah I think I'll pick Sanchez after all at 10. And Dagg I hesitated a lot too, despite many kiwis themselves not being big fans apparently. But Folau's work went relatively unnoticed, but he beat a lot of defenders and ran his usual mileage too.

Well you may right about hooper he was huge against us
I dont like cubellis stile. He slows everything down. And we need speed. Hes is a good player but his passing basic skills a just not good for this level. We are lucky that sanchez has great ability to grab those passes. True, hes good on attack specially arround the fowards. Didnt you noticed how the team improved when landajo came in.? He's the style is that we need. Because of the tremendous preasure on nico sanchez , Those miliseconds that landajo provides are so impotant. In the end of the game when the preasure on our backs slows down a bit , then cubelli can be more productive for us.

 

[William18]

I think people under rate Aaron Smith so much. The drop off to Perenara is just so huge. The drop off is not just in actual ability but even if Perenara is at his best he just can't do what Aaron Smith does. Every time Aaron Smith has a good game the All Blacks win and we win big. Of course, Aaron Smith is more likely to have a good game if the forwards play well.

It used to be McCaw/Carter but now the one player the All Blacks can't lose is Aaron Smith.

 

[Jack Reacher]

1.) Marcos Ayerza (ARG)
2.) Agustin Creevy (ARG)
3.) Ramiro Herrera (ARG)
4.) Brodie Retallick (NZL)
5.) Sam Whitelock (NZL)
6.) Marcell Coetzee (RSA) - Francois Louw
7.) Michael Hooper (AUS) - McCaw
8.) Duane Vermeulen (RSA)
9.) Aaron Smith (NZL)
10.) I don't know. Cruden's missed too many games, Barrett is good but not brilliant, I don't think Foley was great...maybe Nicolas Sanchez.
11.) Julian Savea (NZL)
12.) Jean De Villiers (RSA)
13.) Tevita Kuridrani (AUS)
14.) Ben Smith (NZL)
15.) Israel Folau (AUS)

McCaw has come of age the last two games, really shown his endurance and especially against Arg, his strength, Hooper has many qualities but certainly lacks in the strength/power game. First five is near impossible to call as is centre - no one really played consistently well or all the games

 

[nickdnz]

Mine would look like:

1. Ayerza
2. Coles
3. Herrera
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Kaino
7. McCaw
8. Vermeulen
9. Smith
10. Barrett
11. Savea
12. De Villiers
13. Kuridrani
14. Hendricks
15. Smith

I can't really think of anything Creevy has done to suggest he has been better than Coles...in fact I'd probably have Strauss well ahead of him too. I think people are too "Argentina has had a good scrum" therefore all the front row are selected...Short of one of the Boks tests, the Argentine scrum hasn't really resulted in an obviously dominant and winning display. Even against an apparently weak Australian scrum they ended up losing when going for the penalty try (which was probably pretty harsh, but still).

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

1 Ayerza - If I weren't a Bok supporter I might have gone Slipper here TBH; difficult pick
2 Creevy - just edges Strauss IMO
3 Herrera - see Ayerza. These two get the nod from me based on those first 2 games in particular
4 Retallick - easy pick TBH
5 Lavanni - another difficult one. I think people have not been giving Matfield enough credit.
6 Kaino - has added so much for NZ when he has played
7 Hooper - difficult between him, McCaw and Coetzee..
8 Vermeulen - I find picking him at this stage easy despite Read not playing poorly
9 Smith - easy
10 Sanchez - pretty difficult pick here
11 Savea - along with Retallick, Vermeulen and Aaron Smith the easiest picks
12 De Villiers - 12's just in an underperforming position
13 Kuridrani - pretty easy though more so beccause of the centers being tough picks than him shining as such; though he has been effective
14 Hendricks - just ahead of AAC and Montero. he finishes so beautifuly.
15 Smith - he's played 14 for the ABs but I'll take him here with Folau and Le Roux underperforming and Tuculet not performing since the first 2 rounds

I'm surprised I have so many Argentine players... probably my picks are worth **** I suppose.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Mine would look like:

1. Ayerza
2. Coles
3. Herrera
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Kaino
7. McCaw
8. Vermeulen
9. Smith
10. Barrett
11. Savea
12. De Villiers
13. Kuridrani
14. Hendricks
15. Smith

I can't really think of anything Creevy has done to suggest he has been better than Coles...in fact I'd probably have Strauss well ahead of him too. I think people are too "Argentina has had a good scrum" therefore all the front row are selected...Short of one of the Boks tests, the Argentine scrum hasn't really resulted in an obviously dominant and winning display. Even against an apparently weak Australian scrum they ended up losing when going for the penalty try (which was probably pretty harsh, but still).

A bit one-eyed in picking Whitelock when he's been injured for nearly the entire tournament?

I agree with you on Creevy.

My squad would be:

1. Ayerza
2. Strauss
3. Herrera
4. Retallick
5. Matfield
6. Hooper
7. Coetzee
8. Vermeulen
9. Smith
10. Sanchez (he has been the out and out better fly half after 5 rounds in this position)
11. Savea
12. JDV
13. Kuridrani
14. Hendricks
15. Folau

 

[Darwin]

A bit one-eyed in picking Whitelock when he's been injured for nearly the entire tournament?

I agree with you on Creevy.

My squad would be:

1. Ayerza
2. Strauss
3. Herrera
4. Retallick
5. Matfield
6. Hooper
7. Coetzee
8. Vermeulen
9. Smith
10. Sanchez (he has been the out and out better fly half after 5 rounds in this position)
11. Savea
12. JDV
13. Kuridrani
14. Hendricks
15. Folau

Whitelock has started all but one of the AB's test this Rugby Championship. That's one more start than Matfield.....

I actually think Creevy has been very good. He has a massive work-rate, and is generally very accurate in everything he does. I think he certainly deserves to be mentioned alongside Coles and Strauss in terms of the top hooker of the tournament (he would be my personal choice, narrowly edging out Coles).

 

[Big Ewis]

I don't think anybody's picked Creevy based on the notion the Pumas have had a dominant scrum, merely. Can only speak for myself, but I had to think of each front row position individually, it just ended up being all Pumas. Was anyone nearly as destructive as Ayerza in the scrum ? lol. Was any tighthead (Kepu, Franks or du Plessis) anywhere near as solid as the inexperienced Ramiro Herrera ? Any memory stands out ? Now back to Creevy: the Pumas captain has had fantastic work rate around the park, carried strong, dug into those rucks, and has generally been the paradigm of the Pumas' aggressiveness and unwillingness to just let down while facing the world's best, test after test after test after test. He's been relentless and rugged all the way.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't think anybody's picked Creevy based on the notion the Pumas have had a dominant scrum, merely. Can only speak for myself, but I had to think of each front row position individually, it just ended up being all Pumas. Was anyone nearly as destructive as Ayerza in the scrum ? lol. Was any tighthead (Kepu, Franks or du Plessis) anywhere near as solid as the inexperienced Ramiro Herrera ? Any memory stands out ? Now back to Creevy: the Pumas captain has had fantastic work rate around the park, carried strong, dug into those rucks, and has generally been the paradigm of the Pumas' aggressiveness and unwillingness to just let down while facing the world's best, test after test after test after test. He's been relentless and rugged all the way.

Yes, I have to agree here. That was my general reasoning as well.

 

[nickdnz]

Fair enough on Creevy I guess. I haven't thought he has been anything other than hard working and accurate, but I seem very much in the minority. Will have to watch him more closely next game. That said he has certainly played more rugby this championship than any other hooker..

 

[Jack Reacher]

Retallick is ahead of the pack for player of the year at this stage. There would need to be some big performances during the AI for someone to overhaul him.
He has been massive in all the tests this year, off the top of my head he must have made more metres than most forwards, lots of line breaks plus his work rate is higher than many loosies.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

^ I'd say Vermeulen was in fine test form as well; certainly a top 3 player in every game he has played. With both in line to possibly miss out on the last game it does open the door for someone else a tad.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So, as it stands popular opinion says;

1 Ayerza (83.33%)
2 Creevy (66.66%)
3 Herrera (83.33%)
4 Retallick (100%)
5 Whitelock (50%)
6 Coetzee (66.66%)
7 Hooper (66.66%)
8 Vermeulen (83.33%)
9 Smith (83.33%)
10 Sanchez (50%)(60% if you don't count Big E who seemingly couldn't decide and 66.66% if Big E settled on Sanchez at the end?)
11 Savea (100%)
12De Villiers (100%)
13 Kuridrani (100%)
14 Smith/Hendricks tie (both on 50%)
15 Folau/Smith I call it a tie (Folau leads Smith 3 to 2 at fullback but Smith overall leads 4 to 3 counting 14 as well)

So one of Hendricks or Folau to drop to the bench.

 

[Jack Reacher]

^ I'd say Vermeulen was in fine test form as well; certainly a top 3 player in every game he has played. With both in line to possibly miss out on the last game it does open the door for someone else a tad.

I've always rated Vermeulen but he is very one dimensional. The first 30-50 minutes of most games he is an absolute BEAST. Always tends to fade as he tires and doesn't really have the all round game that others do that keep them involved the full 80.
If he works on that he will be the best in the world, he needs to mimic Read, Kaino, Burger, Spies (I rate him too) in developing his whole game or he will become another Chabel or Andy Powell.

 

[nickdnz]

I think Vermeulen isn't as one dimensional as you make out (in fact I think he has more more dimensions than Spies). He is a strong ball carrier and a good support runner. He is capable of some very classy offloads similar to Read. And he has had very good and physical defense. It's actually interesting comparing the stats of Read and Vermeulen this championship

Vermeulen v Read

Minutes Played: 381 - 400
Tries: 0 -1
Points: 0 - 5
Carries: 50 - 48
Metres: 159 - 137
Clean Breaks: 1 - 0
Defenders Beaten: 10 - 2
Offloads: 2 - 13
Try Assists: 0 - 2
Passes: 12 - 50
Line-out Catches: 14 - 22

Tackles: 42 - 45
Missed Tackles: 8 - 4
Tackle Success Rate: 84% - 92%
Turnovers Conceded: 2 - 5

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think Vermeulen isn't as one dimensional as you make out (in fact I think he has more more dimensions than Spies). He is a strong ball carrier and a good support runner. He is capable of some very classy offloads similar to Read. And he has had very good and physical defense. It's actually interesting comparing the stats of Read and Vermeulen this championship

Vermeulen v Read

Minutes Played: 381 - 400
Tries: 0 -1
Points: 0 - 5
Carries: 50 - 48
Metres: 159 - 137
Clean Breaks: 1 - 0
Defenders Beaten: 10 - 2
Offloads: 2 - 13
Try Assists: 0 - 2
Passes: 12 - 50
Line-out Catches: 14 - 22

Tackles: 42 - 45
Missed Tackles: 8 - 4
Tackle Success Rate: 84% - 92%
Turnovers Conceded: 2 - 5

Do you have the stats for turn overs won? I think that is an area where Vermeulen adds a lot of value to SA on defence particularly winning turn overs relieving us when defending our try line. Also, I have Vermeulen down as giving away less penalties. Quite different players though. Read is more involved in general play ball-in-hand while Vermeulen is more of a workhorse around the tighter areas of play rather than being a 'link-man' though he has shown a few nice touches and of course Read can play a tighter game. I mean, we've seen both adapt to the game, particularly last year in this upcoming fixture.

Pierre Spies.. nah, I don't want to talk about Pierre Spies. I'm glad we've moved on. If you're not winning already, Spies won't help you do so like Read probably would and Vermeulen just might. If there is a SA loosie that can play the ranging game ala Read then it's Schalk Burger who is a surprsingly good handler of the ball.