[2014 EOYT] South Africa

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah, Odendaal has been impressive. He is one of the young guys I'll be keeping an eye on next year's SR. I am very excited for SA's backline post RWC2015;

9 Hougard
10 Pollard
11 Senatla
12 Odendaal
13 Serfontein
14 Hendricks
15 Le Roux

20 Reinach
21 Lambie / Boshoff / Goosen (looking alright at RM92 and all can cover 15 well so we can have a center/wing on the bench)
22 Mvovo / De Allende / Kriel / Taute / Kolbe / Jordaan / Marais / Beyers etc etc all with promise; we'll see who steps up

Not too talk of the two Sharks Du Toit's who are likely to come into the forwards and if PSdT, Etzebeth and Arno Botha can recapture pre-injury form... fok, eina, I wouldn't want to face that young Bok team.

1 Du Toit
2 Du Plessis
3 Malherbe
4 Etzebeth
5 Du Toit
6 Coetzee
7 Botha
8 Vermeulen

Almost all-coastal pack which is strange but oh, well.

 

[Jer1cho]

i would brag about those #stampkar #smoorwen if i were you...

Still got that chip on your shoulder? You should get over it.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Sooo... how long until we see Kolbe in green? RWC too soon?

That guy has got some outrageous feet.

He does need to stop wearing a scrum cap though - bad etiquette for a back.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Sooo... how long until we see Kolbe in green? RWC too soon?

That guy has got some outrageous feet.

He does need to stop wearing a scrum cap though - bad etiquette for a back.

He certainly is a hot stepper. A brace of tries from him yesterday helped WP edge past the Bulls and secure a home Currie Cup final. I can't see HM picking him for 2015 though. And probably fair enough. Between Habana, Le Roux, Hendrikcs, JPP and Mvovo the back three are covered for 2015 and those players all have had a lot of time in 'the system'. Brining in someone new now seems superfluous. I fully expect him to have a good SR season next year (this year he was somewhat hampered by injury) and possibly form part of the Bok setup post RWC 2015 but a lot depends on who our national coach will be. Even at the Stormers he is not assured a starting spot. With Jaco Taute his competition for 15 (though Taute was moved to 12 with De Allende and JdV with the Bokke) and Seabelo Senatla (ridiculous acceleration and pace) and Kobus van Wyk (powerful runner) excellent up and coming wing options for us I expect there will be a lot of rotation in the back three for the Stormers next year. WP do need a class 9 and he has played at 9 before.. I don't know. It's impossible to say what might happen with Kolbe till after the dust has settled post 2015. If one of our Wp/Stormers back three gets called up I think it'd be Senatla though; out-and-out winger and HM has shown interest already in inviting him to train with the Bokke. Both Senatla and Kolbe have won a Commonwealth 7's ***le with the Blitzbokke beating NZ and with the Junior Bokke have gone far in beating the junior ABs twice in one year so no question about temperament.

Senatla is a straight swap for an aging Habana post 2015 and while Kolbe could be a straight swap for Le Roux, Le Roux has some time on the clock still and on the bench we'll probably see a center cum wing wear 22 because all of Lambie, Goosen and Boshoff have experience playing at 15. Pollard is our only 10/12 and actually played very well for the Bulls at 12 this weekend; their only threat in the backline IMO. But Pollard will start so on the bench we'll see one of Lambie/Goosen/Boshoff wear 21 and JPP/De Allende/Taute wear 22. For fullback cum wingers I expect Mvovo to be the man behind Le Roux in Meyer's mind at this stage so even if Pollard weren't available I don't expect to see Kolbe on the Bok bench very soon.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Thought it might be, especially considering he's barely played any SR.

Is he seen as a FB or winger long-term?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Thought it might be, especially considering he's barely played any SR.

Is he seen as a FB or winger long-term?

I think fullback but he'll get some time at wing for WP/Stormers as well as he is the more interchangable of our two options (Kolbe and Taute) between wing and fullback. Taute will get time at fullback as well because at center we have three Bok players in JdV, JdJ and young De Allende who has covered wing for us this year but is considered JdV's long term replacement.

Man, we have good option 12 to 15. With a young but settled pack too boot. Too bad we have nothing at 9 and 10 though. Pretty critical positions to have only university level players (since we couldn't keep hold of Hougaard and Pollard). Oops, I am going on a WP tangent now. Sorry, for us it is still Currie Cup season for this week still.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The Springbok training camp was increased to 32 players on Sunday, when HM asked the following players to join the group after their teams exit in the Currie Cup:

Lwazi Mvovo, Cobus Reinach, Lourens Adriaanse (all Sharks), Handre Pollard, Rudy Paige, Marcel van der Merwe, Bongi Mbonambi (all Blue Bulls) and Boela Abrahams, who starred for the Griffons in their Currie Cup First Division final victory on Friday.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Lawrence D'allaglio has been in the papers here in the UK for 2 weeks in a row talking up the importance of England beating South Africa in the Autumn tests.
It looks like the Poms are targeting the Japies as their major scalp.

 

[Kroc]

Lets ask the right question...Only 4 positions left to select from the best two currier cup teams of this year?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Lets ask the right question...Only 4 positions left to select from the best two currier cup teams of this year?

Uhm no... The training camp can have as many players as HM wants.

The Touring squad will only be announced after the Currie Cup final, then the players will all join up together for a week before leaving for Europe.

 

[Kroc]

Heineken instood make sense now because I cannot understand how Page made it to the 32 man team..

Lets hope springbok coach selects the players who put theirs hand up during this currier cup season with the likes of some major calls up between lions and WP

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

This is a training squad, Kroc so probably not close to being indicative of the end 36 like Heineken has said. There is the WP and lions players as well as the overseas based players still to be considered. IE these players training with the Bokke now does not mean they are traveling. That said there are a few strange picks here.. dare I raise the race issue again.. just a frustrating state of affairs.

The Jones Boy, I expect us Japies will be targeting the Pommies just as much as a must-win seeing as they'll be hosting the whole thing next year. That and SA always gets up for England just as much as for NZ and have the advantage of playing the same game as them but just generally being better at it these last few years.

 

[TRF_heineken]

This is a training squad, Kroc so probably not close to being indicative of the end 36 like Heineken has said. There is the WP and lions players as well as the overseas based players still to be considered. IE these players training with the Bokke now does not mean they are traveling. That said there are a few strange picks here.. dare I raise the race issue again.. just a frustrating state of affairs.

The Jones Boy, I expect us Japies will be targeting the Pommies just as much as a must-win seeing as they'll be hosting the whole thing next year. That and SA always gets up for England just as much as for NZ and have the advantage of playing the same game as them but just generally being better at it these last few years.

Yup.

Page and Abrahams was invited to join the training group as cover in case of emergency. At the moment only Francois Hougaard is fit and healthy. Fourie Du Preez is out injured, Ruan Pienaar is still nursing his injury, Cobus Reinach has a minor injury and can't train... So HM invited them because they are youngsters at a position currently marred by injury. I Highly doubt they will go on the tour, unless there are again some sort of political interference.

Out of the Lions I can see a few guys who would have been called up:
Marnitz Boshoff
Warren Whiteley
Ruan Combrink
Lionel Mapoe
Armand van der Merwe
Julian Redelinghuys

And for the WP:
Scarra Ntubeni
Nizam Carr (if not injured)
Nic Groom
Seabelo Senatla
Juan De Jongh
Cheslin Kolbe

 

[TRF_heineken]

Marcel van der Merwe has been ruled out for the EOYT with a knee injury...

Dammit!!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yup.

Page and Abrahams was invited to join the training group as cover in case of emergency. At the moment only Francois Hougaard is fit and healthy. Fourie Du Preez is out injured, Ruan Pienaar is still nursing his injury, Cobus Reinach has a minor injury and can't train... So HM invited them because they are youngsters at a position currently marred by injury. I Highly doubt they will go on the tour, unless there are again some sort of political interference.

Out of the Lions I can see a few guys who would have been called up:
Marnitz Boshoff
Warren Whiteley
Ruan Combrink
Lionel Mapoe
Armand van der Merwe
Julian Redelinghuys

And for the WP:
Scarra Ntubeni
Nizam Carr (if not injured)
Nic Groom
Seabelo Senatla
Juan De Jongh
Cheslin Kolbe

Seems Carr will likely be ready for the CC final. Agree with that list though I think Groom's decision making goes out the window under pressure. I'd like to throw in a few names who won't look out of sorts in green; Schalk van der Merwe and then I found it strange that from the Bulls that Visagie and Du Plessis weren't invited. I mean, if Mbonambi gets invited..

Marcel van der Merwe has been ruled out for the EOYT with a knee injury...

Dammit!!

Damn, between him and Malherbe getting injured and missing out in 2014 it seems we will be stuck with Jannie till after the RWC then. HM might want to seriously consider BOTH redelinghuys and Dreyer at this stage..

 

[TRF_heineken]

Seems Carr will likely be ready for the CC final. Agree with that list though I think Groom's decision making goes out the window under pressure. I'd like to throw in a few names who won't look out of sorts in green; Schalk van der Merwe and then I found it strange that from the Bulls that Visagie and Du Plessis weren't invited. I mean, if Mbonambi gets invited..

To be fair, Callie has been off during the Currie Cup, and Bongi has been playing better and better. I was wondering the same thing about Jacques Du Plessis, and he's still so young, why was he not invited now, yet he was invited to camps before...

Damn, between him and Malherbe getting injured and missing out in 2014 it seems we will be stuck with Jannie till after the RWC then. HM might want to seriously consider BOTH redelinghuys and Dreyer at this stage..

Well, it makes the work toll so much more harder on Jannie, that HM will have no choice but to pick newbies... I'd go for both of them too, Maybe we'll even see Coenie being called up again...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Which would be fine if Jannie wasn't already showing signs of going backwards (Beast too but there are no injury forced reasons there). Hopefully we'll see some form of change up but I'm just not convinced our selectors actually look at the scrum when selecting our props LOL. That is my biggest concern ATM. That and lock but TBF Etzebeth is getting better each game even if he is taking his sweet time getting back to 2013 form, and we have good options that'll be returning at prop and lock next year.

Alberts will be needed up North. FdP is still a great option but it really is good to see Hougaard get into rhythm at 9 inside of Pollard who is a breath of fresh air at 10. Those were my major concerns pre the RC but they've been answered while in Vermeulen and Le Roux we have found good replacements for the limited Kirchner and Spies. At wing, center and lock we have developed options through injury enforced necessity. In the backrow we are fine, at hooker we have depth.. everything considered things are looking good assuming we have nothing more than a reasonable/expected amount of injuries and key players get/stay in form. It's been a dark few years the end of the PdV era. Looking like there is light ahead.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Which would be fine if Jannie wasn't already showing signs of going backwards (Beast too but there are no injury forced reasons there). Hopefully we'll see some form of change up but I'm just not convinced our selectors actually look at the scrum when selecting our props LOL. That is my biggest concern ATM. That and lock but TBF Etzebeth is getting better each game even if he is taking his sweet time getting back to 2013 form, and we have good options that'll be returning at prop and lock next year.

Alberts will be needed up North. FdP is still a great option but it really is good to see Hougaard get into rhythm at 9 inside of Pollard who is a breath of fresh air at 10. Those were my major concerns pre the RC but they've been answered while in Vermeulen and Le Roux we have found good replacements for the limited Kirchner and Spies. At wing, center and lock we have developed options through injury enforced necessity. In the backrow we are fine, at hooker we have depth.. everything considered things are looking good assuming we have nothing more than a reasonable/expected amount of injuries and key players get/stay in form. It's been a dark few years the end of the PdV era. Looking like there is light ahead.

True, and I am holding thumbs that SARU approve the move to rest certain players for a period during next year's SR tournament, that and some guys returning from long term injuries will give us a major boost ahead of the RWC.

EDIT: Just hear that Callie Visagie is scheduled to go for an operation on his shoulder, and will miss the start of the Super Rugby Tournament. I guess that's why Bongi was also called up ahead of him...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

That clarifies it then. Ntubeni and Van der Merwe still to play but still no need to get in Mbonambi unless they are simulating set pieces and need a hooker. With Brits out someone else will get a chance. I can't see them wating the spot on Ralepele. Burden is our better overseas based hooker but it should really be Bismarck and Strauss' long term replacement that get to travel along. It's impossible to say who that'll be but my money would be on one of Ntubeni and Van der Merwe. Francois du Toit at the Pumas who played for the Junior Bokke only this year still (?) also a guy to keep an eye on though Bosmarck and Strauss should have a good 2 years post 2015 in them still.

In wasting some time I went through a few player stats. With the win over NZ the first in what feels like quite a while I specifically looked at success % against the All blacks. They are also looking the team at the RWc looming the largest in that 1) they'd be favorites and 2) we are pretty much assured of facing them. I didn't expect players other than Brussow who featured almost exclusively in 2009 to have 50% ratio's but to my surprise there was some and a few with positive win ratio's as well;

Heinrich Brussow (4/0)
Fourie du Preez (7/5)
JP Pietersen (5/4)
Bismarck du Plessis (6/6)
Frans Steyn (4/4)
Handre Pollard (1/1)(5/1 if you count wins over the junior All Blacks at the JRWC)

Sadly Brussow and Frans Steyn don't seem likely to be part of our options going forward though I do rate both of them still. Young guys who have yet to taste defeat in a Bok jersey and who are sure starters when fit again;

Frans Malherbe (4/0 against all opposition)
PS du Toit (2/0 same)
Arno Botha (1/0 same) who I still maintain is our long term replacement for Alberts though he is not a similar player.

Senatla is a straight swap for Habana while Pollard, Hougaard, Serfontein, Le Roux and Hendricks will be senior players after 2015. A good amount of competition for JdV's center spot between De Allende, Odendaal and Jordaan. Like I said, assuming HM doesn't continue post RWC2015, he has laid some solid foundations. Heres hoping politics don't interfere again like with the appointment of PdV..

 

[TRF_heineken]

That clarifies it then. Ntubeni and Van der Merwe still to play but still no need to get in Mbonambi unless they are simulating set pieces and need a hooker. With Brits out someone else will get a chance. I can't see them wating the spot on Ralepele. Burden is our better overseas based hooker but it should really be Bismarck and Strauss' long term replacement that get to travel along. It's impossible to say who that'll be but my money would be on one of Ntubeni and Van der Merwe. Francois du Toit at the Pumas who played for the Junior Bokke only this year still (?) also a guy to keep an eye on though Bosmarck and Strauss should have a good 2 years post 2015 in them still.

In wasting some time I went through a few player stats. With the win over NZ the first in what feels like quite a while I specifically looked at success % against the All blacks. They are also looking the team at the RWc looming the largest in that 1) they'd be favorites and 2) we are pretty much assured of facing them. I didn't expect players other than Brussow who featured almost exclusively in 2009 to have 50% ratio's but to my surprise there was some and a few with positive win ratio's as well;

Heinrich Brussow (4/0)
Fourie du Preez (7/5)
JP Pietersen (5/4)
Bismarck du Plessis (6/6)
Frans Steyn (4/4)
Handre Pollard (1/1)(5/1 if you count wins over the junior All Blacks at the JRWC)

Sadly Brussow and Frans Steyn don't seem likely to be part of our options going forward though I do rate both of them still. Young guys who have yet to taste defeat in a Bok jersey and who are sure starters when fit again;

Frans Malherbe (4/0 against all opposition)
PS du Toit (2/0 same)
Arno Botha (1/0 same) who I still maintain is our long term replacement for Alberts though he is not a similar player.

Senatla is a straight swap for Habana while Pollard, Hougaard, Serfontein, Le Roux and Hendricks will be senior players after 2015. A good amount of competition for JdV's center spot between De Allende, Odendaal and Jordaan. Like I said, assuming HM doesn't continue post RWC2015, he has laid some solid foundations. Heres hoping politics don't interfere again like with the appointment of PdV..

It's an interesting topic that of HM post RWC2015. And I'm inclined to say that he must stay on as bok coach after the RWC. For 2 reasons. 1, His winning record keeps on improving, as well as the team on a constant basis. 2, Who would be better suited as Bok-coach than him? Jake White? Allistair Coetzee? Frans Ludeke? Gary Gold?