[2015 TRC] Australia v New Zealand in Sydney (08/08/2015)

[Kiwi_]

Slades pretty consistent isn't he, he does the basics well and is a pretty good place kicker. He might not be the flashiest player around, but he's really solid. He's the James Milner of Rugby.

 

[RoosTah]

I agree I think Sopoaga, Slade maybe should be considered a bit more, the problem for Hansen which has already been bought up about the tight 5 is that it's getting later and later in the day before the RWC to make change after change..

I think in regards to next week the Aussies will play Phipps again as he's not an impact Scrum Half, or Genia (though I don't know if he's injured) with White on the bench again..
I can't see much change at all, going into next week..

I can't say for sure, but you'd have to think Phipps played himself out of the starting line up... He was all over the place all night

 

[chikwa chibwe]

Australia were clearly better though I'll admit that. Another good try. Deserved win.

The ref had a decisive hand in this victory . His officiating of the breakdown allowed the Aussies to slow the ball down . When this was achieved their rush defence was extremely effective. & naturally everything else clicked into place . I don't call that a deserved win. This ref has issues.
Notwithstanding my opinion the all blacks have issues they need to resolve !

 

[TobesHodges]

Slades pretty consistent isn't he, he does the basics well and is a pretty good place kicker. He might not be the flashiest player around, but he's really solid. He's the James Milner of Rugby.

Haha I like that, yeah I said a while back, I was looking at a YT vid of this years Super rugby best try's and Slade had a big hand in all of the Crusader ones, slipped under the Radar a bit I think, but it would considering how well the other NZ franchises did.

I can't say for sure, but you'd have to think Phipps played himself out of the starting line up... He was all over the place all night

I know, but I can't see Chieka wanting to pick anyone else.. And you can't have him on the bench, he's not an impact player, the only other guy, maybe Sterzaker(I don't know how to spell) or Genia but like I said I don't know if he's injured or not..

 

[nik]

The ref had a decisive hand in this victory . His officiating of the breakdown allowed the Aussies to slow the ball down . When this was achieved their rush defence was extremely effective. & naturally everything else clicked into place . I don't call that a deserved win. This ref has issues.
Notwithstanding my opinion the all blacks have issues they need to resolve !

Agree about the referee and his officiating of the breakdown, however he was consistent for both sides. He tried to keep the game free flowing. The Wallabies probably used the refereee's interpretation better than the ABs.

 

[chikwa chibwe]

Woodcock and Owen franks are past their best. I called it at the beginning of the rugby championship & many came to their defence. Dagg didn't play but clearly should not be included in the squad to the World Cup . Can Dan carter rekindle his brilliance ?
It is a tough call, I think the selectors should be bold and give Lima another start at 10 next weekend . We have seen what Barrett can do? Colin slade should not make the final squad. Aron smith has lost form but he should start again. He is a phenomenal player who the team needs at his best. The no 6 position needs to be looked at critically. Perhaps Matt Todd should come in at 7 and McCaw should move to 6. Or victor Vito should play 6. Jerome and Messam are playing average rugby which is not good enough. I don't see why Hansen is persisting with Luke Romano . He produces average performances that is not good enough for an all black . Broad hurst should be given another crack.
Searching questions need to be asked .
1) The scrum is being consistently beaten . Why is this?
2) The opposing teams always dominate the breakdown . Why is this?
3) Who should start at no 10?

 

[Wendigo7]

I just dont think your front 3 are very good scrummagers chikwa, there is alot to be said in the all black style about putting the in field skills as more importance than the set piece.

Lineout is fine, Scrum has been creaking for a while, breakdown you've been monstered now against Australia and SA. Against SA, a bit of utter brilliance at the Lineout won you the game but the Aussies didn't allow you to have the same platform. Also note though I don't rate SH scrummaging at the moment, Australia are on the right track, Argentina are decent but I don't think either are as good as England or Ireland at scrummaging specifically as a set piece skill requisite.

There's also the issue that you weren't patient. You didn't earn the right to go wide, you went wide all the time thinking you'd be too fit for the wallabies and that didn't play out well, their rush defence caused you all sorts of issues. In going wide all the time it became obvious and easy to read, the aussie backs rushed up, shut the men down and you didn't have much of an attacking outlet and alot of ground you did make was through tight offloads in midfield in traffic. Milner-Skudder aside.

 

[Kiwi_]

Woodcock and Franks are putting us under huge amounts of pressure and are even worse out off the scrum, they don't make the breakdowns, they drop the ball, they look really out off their depth and it's hindered the team enormously. But we're not going to see changes, it's the same old case with the All Blacks, old mates, old firm, I thought we got rid of this mentality in NZ Rugby? The reason they were in our back line so many times when we had the ball is they're too slow getting to the breakdowns to protect the pill!! They have to go, immobile, penalized, adding nothing but a massive burden and pressure from all aspects. There's 0 positives having them on the park only colossal game losing negatives!!

 

[smartcooky]

Woodcock and Franks are putting us under huge amounts of pressure and are even worse out off the scrum, they don't make the breakdowns, they drop the ball, they look really out off their depth and it's hindered the team enormously. But we're not going to see changes, it's the same old case with the All Blacks, old mates, old firm, I thought we got rid of this mentality in NZ Rugby? The reason they were in our back line so many times when we had the ball is they're too slow getting to the breakdowns to protect the pill!! They have to go, immobile, penalized, adding nothing but a massive burden and pressure from all aspects. There's 0 positives having them on the park only colossal game losing negatives!!

Well, I think any player who wears No. 1 or No 3 should stay out of the backline. How many times did the props commit unforced errors last night and turn the ball over?

 

[Aboottarren]

I have followed RU for 75 years and I admit Richy McCraw is the best & most skillful forward I have ever seen,he is totally AMAZING,he outfoxes all the opposition he plays against and furthermore he foxes all the referees he plays under,it is incredible how he can get away with illegal wheeling of the pack when NZ are in a tight position near their own line and the opposition feeding scrum,he wheels the scrum so that the attacking opponents are jammed in a blind corner with nowhere to go,....he has fooled the referees for years and I have never seen him penalised for this foul.,,,,,but he has given me hours of joy watching him and I dont expect to see another forward to equal him in my lifetime.

 

[smartcooky]

I have followed RU for 75 years and I admit Richy McCraw is the best & most skillful forward I have ever seen,he is totally AMAZING,he outfoxes all the opposition he plays against and furthermore he foxes all the referees he plays under,it is incredible how he can get away with illegal wheeling of the pack when NZ are in a tight position near their own line and the opposition feeding scrum,he wheels the scrum so that the attacking opponents are jammed in a blind corner with nowhere to go,....he has fooled the referees for years and I have never seen him penalised for this foul.,,,,,but he has given me hours of joy watching him and I dont expect to see another forward to equal him in my lifetime.

Wow! McCaw is an openside flanker! How on earth does he wheel the scrum from that position all by himself?

75 years eh?... You wouldn't know a wing-forward from an out-half. You're full of crap!

 

[nik]

Carter was poor for sure, probably his worst game in the black jersey. The problem with the ABs is that in the past Dan Carter was heavily relied upon to orchestrate the attack, pre RWC 2011, if Carter didn't play then ABs would definitely lose the game as there was no replacement who could slot in orchestrate the attack (except Nick Evans). When he got injured in RWC 2011, the All Blacks realised they cannot play the same way they did leading into the semis/final without Carter. The All Blacks individually lifted 5% extra and the burden of first5 responsibilities were shared between other players e.g. goal kicking Piri Weepu, clearance kicks Israel Dagg even the style of play changed by being gaining forward ascendancy then launching attacks. This allowed the replacement first5's to focus on a specific set of tasks rather than play the game Carter plays.

I just wonder whether the All Blacks just expect Carter to play the way he did 4 years ago. Obviously he is not the same player as 4 years ago, he does not create as many opportunities as he used to. In the past he would have been able to get the backline singing without ABs gaining forward ascendancy.

The focus this week needs to be going back to basics.

 

[Kiwi_]

We have better options than Dan.. Sopoanga has proved that and even Barrett is better. We can't sit around and wait or everyone to get back into form. I know it's hard to drop old players who have been so great for us for a decade, but there comes a time when you have to and now is the time, have them around in the squad, but we can't expect them to play 80 minutes in a tough knock out tournament in another continent.

 

[nickdnz]

We have better options than Dan.. Sopoanga has proved that and even Barrett is better. We can't sit around and wait or everyone to get back into form. I know it's hard to drop old players who have been so great for us for a decade, but there comes a time when you have to and now is the time, have them around in the squad, but we can't expect them to play 80 minutes in a tough knock out tournament in another continent.

Historically speaking it seems now is the absolute worst time.

The start of a four year cycle is when you introduce new players, not at the end of it. It's knee jerk reactions to players having fairly average games, that would be the dumbest thing to do. In Fekitoa's 8 test matches he has not shown he is capable of organizing a backline. Sopoaga just had a good games against the Boks...who not meaning to offend just lost of both Australia and Argentina.

If the players are genuinely past it, well unfortunately by in large that is just the cards we have been dealt. You can't strip the backbone out of a team which has played together for years, and just assume the guys who have managed a staggering 5 months of form will be able to run the ship.

 

[Mcfadden]

Not to be argumentative, but I think some of the quick fixes being proposed are a little bit panicky and naive. Barrett has his own problems. He's been injured and was rusty towards the end of Super because of that. He also stands too deep, and his form for all kinds of reasons hasn't been the best for awhile. That's not to say he's a worthless player who can't do a job. It's just that you're crawling out of one situation and getting caught in another. Lima was brilliant for one game. I like that he showed promise when a lot of other players didn't, but that also needs to be kept in perspective.

I think I need more time to think on this. I don't know how I feel. Some of what Nick said is right. There isn't much that can be done. These are the All Blacks options, and they need to do better. The tackling has been uncharacteristically poor the last couple of weeks. South Africa seemed to steamroll through NZ on a few occasions as well. I haven't seen the stats but that seems like a team issue. Personally I would have given Sam Cane a start for this game (I had it planned out all year. I'm not just saying this in hindsight). His tackling has been prolific this year.

It seems like very simple stuff in parts. Tackling, patience, accuracy. But it seems like more challenging stuff in other areas. Do the All Blacks have the talent to dominate that breakdown? Is there the depth in midfield to really win this world cup? I'm not sure what goes on in the All Blacks strategy room. Obviously they didn't plan on being that poor, but if they're employing a purposeful strategy of hanging back and accelerating in the final 20 then I think that's dangerous, and always thought it would come back to bite.

It is what it is. It's not like the ABs got whooped, and tbh inside of Australia that team seems to grow an extra limb. Away from Aus it's a slightly different story. I remember that being the case in 2011. The Reds and Wallabies looked nearly invincible at home at times. Some things can definitely be changed and worked on, but other things could be beyond control.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i'm going to say this game was pretty much won and lost in the forwards. The aussie forwards we're great, pressure at scrum time and committed at the breakdown gaining loads of turn overs. A better halfback link and it would have been over a lot sooner

..our forwards thought they could all ghost through the game in the back line and one of two things always happened...they got caught out and isolated and turned over the ball...or they dropped it...just lazy...like they didn't want to get dirty of something

and i too am going to lay some blame at Richie's feet...why did we just keep on doing those studpid short balls from one forward to another....i dont think a single one resulted in the line break but plenty resulted in turn over of some sort. The aussies read that from the start and implemented a game plan to completely nullify it....Richie should have had a plan B...and C in his pocket....its why you keep picking the experienced guy....if he's not bring that experience to the table then his stocks do drop a bit

 

[smartcooky]

and i too am going to lay some blame at Richie's feet...why did we just keep on doing those studpid short balls from one forward to another....i dont think a single one resulted in the line break but plenty resulted in turn over of some sort. The aussies read that from the start and implemented a game plan to completely nullify it....

You should go back and re-watch the second and third Bledisloes from last year. We used that same game plan in the second one and ripped the Wallabies apart, but they did their homework, and when we tried repeating it in the third one, they read it and countered it very well. Fekitoa's last gasp try and Slade's match winning conversion help to paper over that particular set of cracks; the fact that they pulled a six try to two, 51-20 thrashing back to a four try to three, 29-28 nail-biter in the next match, sounded alarm bells that we ignored.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

You should go back and re-watch the second and third Bledisloes from last year. We used that same game plan in the second one and ripped the Wallabies apart, but they did their homework, and when we tried repeating it in the third one, they read it and countered it very well. Fekitoa's last gasp try and Slade's match winning conversion help to paper over that particular set of cracks; the fact that they pulled a six try to two, 51-20 thrashing back to a four try to three, 29-28 nail-biter in the next match, sounded alarm bells that we ignored.

The aussie proved pretty quickly they were more than a match for that particular trick...were we hoping they would forget about it at half time?

 

[Larksea]

well done Aussie, on TRC win. they did have a huge advantage with the draw by having two home games against SA & NZ, where NZ had the toughest draw having away games against SA & AU but that's the reality of WC year.

It's not panic time for the AB's they can and normally do learn more from a loss than a win. Against Australia in particular.

There are a lot of talking points from the game for me the #1 was the breakdown #2 was the scrum.

I'm not even going to pretend to begin to know how they can fix the scrum but I know they will. It's really unusual for the Aussie scrum to get the better of an NZ one. The worst part was the couple of times the NZ scrum did have dominance they got incorrectly penalised, one call in particular was critical in terms of the games balance that was just unfortunate.

The breakdown is interesting. For mine what Pocock & Hooper did was generally not legal, when the payers hands are on the ball 3/4 of the players body length away from their feet then it's impossible for them to be supporting their own body weight, I dont understand how the refs can come to the conclusion that they are.

This has actually happened before in a test series AU vs NZ where the first test AUS won with breakdown work like this and a northern hemisphere ref then the next week the southern hemisphere ref penalised them early for it the AB's then actually were able to get some ball and won comfortably.

The AB's need better tactics for when this happens, countering Pocock and Hooper makes it very hard. Usually you can either pass to the opposite side of where Pocock is defending or ball runners target him so he has to tackle but with hooper there as well more options are needed. later on where Barrett was on they went wider it seemed to work but that doesn't always work as well early in a game.

It's not time to hit the panic button with Dan Carter, he played ok and just missed a couple of kicks. Sure 5 years ago he was so good he would win us games like this where we are outplayed in other aspects of the game. But now we need to look at the other problems and not just blame Dan for not pulling something out of his hat like he used to. It doesn't help getting rotated I think he's a player that needs gametime.

Barrett actually looked pretty good when he came on, I'm wondering if we have too many options. Sometimes it's more important to make a quick decision than to wait make a more informed decision. That's how I feel about our 10 situation. It's more important to pick a guy and give him a chance to build his game than to give all the options a run and try and figure out who the best one is. So limited time before the WC Heck Slade hasn't even been given a chance yet. IMO it's too late to try him, you would have to say now that Colin Slade wont be in the WC squad, surely if the selectors intended to have him in the WC squad he would have been given some gametime...

SBW, the injury he went off with he actually picked up very early in the game, while he still functioned and had a couple of good hit ups he didn't really impose himself on the game like we needed him too. Maybe he should have come off earlier. And I think people are harsh on him I mean it's not like he had a worse game than Conrad Smith, or Savea and carter was only a bit better.

Savea is still looking well below par, it's been mentioned how he's come into the AB's camp well under condition. He really really needs to work his arse off to get up to spec. He's picked a hell of a year to go off the boil... Until then you would have to pick Piutau for 11. Saw an interview during the week how he has been doing running to improve his condition while the rest of the squad is training. This sounds fricken stupid to me he should he doing training and then doing his fitness work as extra.

Aaron Smith hasn't really looked great so far two games in a row now, I guess the only option is to keep playing him and he should come right I would back him to do that. Perenara looks in better form, ignoring his knock-on that he made at the back of a shocking scrum. His distribution he did against Argentina was exactly what the AB's need and if anything he should have come on earlier I dont see the point in giving him 5 min. He needs a good 20min and in his form he deserves to be given that 20min.

Ben Smith was superb at 15, he and Nehe were by far our best backs and best players overall. Some really important work on defense including a couple of try savers and at least a really good effort in attempting to save the AAC try. Unfortunately he probably wont be back for the return Bledisloe because of that knock.

Really impressive Debut from Nehe, I would have liked to have seen him go looking for more work during the middle of the game but generally he was very good, got two chances and finished two chances really well. Even made a few important tackles.

The final thing to consider is that the AB's seem to be using an entirely new game plan both attack and defense, coaches trying to be less predictable in a WC year. Which is probably one of the reasons they have struggled to really get into their groove this year.

I know I've blabbered on a bit but no it's not time to panic, at this particular point in time the Aussies in Sydney with Wane Barnes as the ref was probably the worst case scenario in world rugby for the AB's. They wont have to do that again this year. Regroup, stay positive, work hard. I expect a big comeback game.

If anything, from looking at what has been done so far this year. I dont think having a squad of ~42 is a good way to get our best 23 working well. And I've said it again and again, NZ teams doing really well in super rugby hampers early All Black test performances, all NZ super rugby final and more involved in the finals. The players are missing a week rest and a week in camp, the highlanders recovering from the party and the hurricanes recovering from an extremely disappointing and emotional loss I think this is more of a factor this year than it has ever been.

I'd like to see Piutau Back and give Nehe another run, I also want to see Broadhurst get another go he will be much more of an asset than Romano or Thrush if he's given a chance to build his game. Sam Cane is looking like he could do really well if given a chance but how do we play him?

 

[Maxwell]

Ardie Savea is a must and surely his injury would be well healed by now. IMO he is just as efficient at breakdown as Hooper or Pocock but far more skilled with ball in hand. Play Savea, McCaw & Read as back 3.

Was Mealamu that far off the pace ? He might be refreshed for one last effort.

Woodcock has seen better days.

Piutau in for Savea, Maybe Ben Smith for Conrad & Dagg at back with Skudder on other wing.

How far away is Nonu ?