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Elliot Daly might be back for the NZ match but for this week it looks like it be Marcus Smith replacing Steward.
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England 2025/26
- Thread starter TRF_Olyy
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Elliot Daly might be back for the NZ match but for this week it looks like it be Marcus Smith replacing Steward.
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Good money after bad... Borthwick needs to ditch this stupid experiment.
Personally I think with his running game he’d make a better FB but he isn’t playing there for his club and I could be wrong.
But with Daly, Furbank, carpenter, steward all injured we either invest caps into our 5th choice FB who won’t be used probably much again in the near future or pick a player to cover from the squad who has experience just not in that position.
Freeman would have been primed to move from the wing to cover FB in this game but since SB forced his silly little 13 game, you’d have to break up the midfield which needs time as we constantly change centres.
We need to get an experienced winger who also covers FB (for their club) into the squad as Daly is aging.
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As others have said, I think the place for experimenting with starting positions is at club level, not international. I'm tired of international coaches who have less exposure to the players thinking they know better and can shoehorn people into positions they don't usually play.
I'd rather we went with someone like TdG than Smith. For all week know, TdG could kick on and push himself up the pecking order. We act like somehow we are forced into this because we have no more capable FBs left.
Although it's worth noting that Freeman IS a winger who covers FB for his club, and has both more experience, and more recent experience at FB than he does at OC.
I wish journos would stop giving Borthwick ideas. Lawrence must be pleased.
www.bbc.co.uk
Ben Earl 'happy' to start at centre for England 'at any time'
England back row Ben Earl says he trusts Steve Borthwick if the head coach decides to deploy him as a starting centre.
www.bbc.co.uk
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I was just thinking about players who have recently been involved but made neither squad either due to injury or non selection and you could make a pretty handy squad from that group too:
1. Rodd / Brantingham
2. Oghre / Blake
3. Davison / Kloska
4. Ewels / Tuima
5. Clark / Tizard
6. T. Hill / Capstick
7. B. Curry
8. Dombrandt / Barbeary
9. Porter / C. Bracken
10. Bailey
11. Muir / Ibitoye
12. S. Atkinson / Woodward
13. Northmore / Beard
14. Hendy
15. Furbank / Carpenter
Bold = capped
Italic = called-up
Mad when you think all of those have represented England (or received a call-up) in some capacity in the past 12 months. Sure I’ve probably forgotten some too.
That also doesn't include the likes of Will Joseph, Jack Bracken, Carnduff etc. who are definitely on the radar but yet to be included.
1. Rodd / Brantingham
2. Oghre / Blake
3. Davison / Kloska
4. Ewels / Tuima
5. Clark / Tizard
6. T. Hill / Capstick
7. B. Curry
8. Dombrandt / Barbeary
9. Porter / C. Bracken
10. Bailey
11. Muir / Ibitoye
12. S. Atkinson / Woodward
13. Northmore / Beard
14. Hendy
15. Furbank / Carpenter
Bold = capped
Italic = called-up
Mad when you think all of those have represented England (or received a call-up) in some capacity in the past 12 months. Sure I’ve probably forgotten some too.
That also doesn't include the likes of Will Joseph, Jack Bracken, Carnduff etc. who are definitely on the radar but yet to be included.
It's bull.I wish journos would stop giving Borthwick ideas. Lawrence must be pleased.
Ben Earl 'happy' to start at centre for England 'at any time'
England back row Ben Earl says he trusts Steve Borthwick if the head coach decides to deploy him as a starting centre.
I won't believe it until I see it on the pitch.
Earl is a perfectly acceptable centre-in-case-of-emergency-during-a-match - and as such, should get time training there. That doesn't mean that there's any chance of his starting a test match at centre - any more than Ford at scrum half, or Manu at flanker.
The only possible exception I can think of is if there's an injury crisis amongst the backs during a world cup with everyone expected back before the SF stage (and England as near as dammit confirmed in the QFs). If it's become a choice between starting Earl at centre or starting all 3 scrum halves, then... yeah, I guess I could see that.
Also worth noting that over the last 3 years Marcus has a lot more experience at FB than Freeman does.
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I think there's a huge psychological gain to be made in beating NZ - even though they're not vintage they still have a bit of an aura and knowing you can beat someone changes mindsets. We haven't played them often in recent years and while there have been some near misses our last win was in 2019 and before that 2012. Plus I think I'm right in saying that would mean that we've beaten every top 10 team bar the Boks since beating Fiji in the RWC.
Whatever we think of the current ABs they'll be way better than Aus. So I hope we treat Fiji as a full dress rehearsal. If he wants to go experimental do it v Arg.
Whatever we think of the current ABs they'll be way better than Aus. So I hope we treat Fiji as a full dress rehearsal. If he wants to go experimental do it v Arg.
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Very true. But Freeman has the natural instincts of a back 3 player which is probably more valuable plus a greater presence in defence and under the high ball.
Over time I could see Freeman developing into a very good centre if he got time at club level. But instinctively if he was to change position I could see him being a much better FB and I think the transition would be easier.
Although why Freeman wants / needs to change position at all is another matter. If it’s his whim he needs to earn it, but if SB is hell bent on playing him in a particular shirt then there’s at least a sort of logical argument for getting as much time as possible into him there.
I didn't know that, but either way... It's a greater positional switch from FH than from wing - as I understand it (having only ever played wing through injuries to others).
Either way, neither meets my usual requirements of a couple of dozen (professional) starts in said position before I'm comfortable that they're comfortable playing there. And I want those starts at club level before being happy to see them internationally.
Obviously though, those "requirements" reduce with lesser changes, like switching centre berths, which wing or which flank.
FTR, I'm one of those who thinks that FB is Marcus' position-of-best-fit. I just also accept that he's never going to play there for club (barring an injury crisis) or want to put 20-25 matches into him there for England
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I really hope not, put Smith at 22/23 if 6/2, let the him come on at 10 like he wants unless he's needed at FB.
mkersyshull
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Where do BBarrett and McKenzie play for thier clubs?
mkersyshull
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Just looked it up
McKenzie for Chiefs, 10 starts at 10 and 4 at 15
BBarreyy for Blues, 10 start at 10 and 3 at 15 (and 1 on the bench)
What I'm trying to say is 2 things
1 - could M Smith be our version of McKenzie
2 - doesn't it depend on your set up, are wingers or fly halves best moving to FB? I can see benifits of both
McKenzie for Chiefs, 10 starts at 10 and 4 at 15
BBarreyy for Blues, 10 start at 10 and 3 at 15 (and 1 on the bench)
What I'm trying to say is 2 things
1 - could M Smith be our version of McKenzie
2 - doesn't it depend on your set up, are wingers or fly halves best moving to FB? I can see benifits of both
mkersyshull
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Sorry, 1 more. When SA best NZ in September, they had Willemse (fullback/flyhalf) and Moodie (winger) as the centres. I think the modern game is less about fixed positions and more about fluidity.
Thats 2 examples for the top 2 teams in the world right now
Thats 2 examples for the top 2 teams in the world right now
I think it’s more about specialist, just look at Freeman at the weekend. He played like a winger not a 13 and so butchered a few opportunities.
Specialists are there for a reason, I can’t see why you’d want to pick a player who doesn’t play in a position vs one that does week in week out. You’d have to think a lot more of your judgement than the clubs.
I'm continually baffled by the love-in for Fraiser "glue player" Dingwall that we're all curently enduring; where being slow and zero carry threat is somehow a virtue because he can chuck a nice pass (when they're not being intercepted). Max Ojomoh can do everything Dingwall can but defenders can't afford to just sit off him because he actually poses a threat with ball in hand, and can also bang in defence too for that matter.
If they're playing an extra playmaker against Fiji with M.Smith at FB you might as well try Lawrence 12 and Freeman 13. If they look good, England might just have solved a big problem.
If they're playing an extra playmaker against Fiji with M.Smith at FB you might as well try Lawrence 12 and Freeman 13. If they look good, England might just have solved a big problem.
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So a fly half at 15, a wing a 13 and a 13 at 12? That doesn’t feel like the solution to any problem.
Not sure there’s a ‘love-in’ for Dingwall TBH? He’s not drawing too much heat for an underwhelming performance and an unfortunate intercept but there’s been no praise either.
I appreciate his qualities - he usually makes intelligent, unselfish decisions that create space for others. However, it’s a huge shame that Atkinson isn’t fit to cement his place at 12. I’d have liked to have seen the Ojomoh/Lawrence combo as well but I don’t dislike Dingwall as an option.
Not sure there’s a ‘love-in’ for Dingwall TBH? He’s not drawing too much heat for an underwhelming performance and an unfortunate intercept but there’s been no praise either.
I appreciate his qualities - he usually makes intelligent, unselfish decisions that create space for others. However, it’s a huge shame that Atkinson isn’t fit to cement his place at 12. I’d have liked to have seen the Ojomoh/Lawrence combo as well but I don’t dislike Dingwall as an option.
Its not just the modern game...its happened through the years...
Simple examples
Tana Umaga - Winger who became a centre
Tim Horan - 10, 12, Wing
Ma'a Nonu - Centre / Wing
Heally / Catt played all over the back line
Adam Ashley Cooper - Played all over the back line
Matt Giteau - Played 9/10/12
Shane Williams - Scrum half to wing
Theres a BIG list of players who have covered numerous positions
Ill even throw JPR Williams in there...Full back and Flanker
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