USA news & politics

[General Melchett]

I said avoid jail AND enrich himself.

I think he stood to gain, and has gained, a lot more from being POTUS than he would've had he not been president. As much as you like to think he's a genius businessman most of his wealth comes from the apprentice and has gone bankrupt more than once but in my humble opinion he's a scam artist and what better way to scam people than garner a cult like following AND holding the most powerful office in the world.

Look, I'm happy to give Trump credit where it's due which is why I asked you ages ago to give me something to go on and you said he loves his kids and is tee total. I need more than that bud.

Also worth remembering that he hasn't just bankrupted himself but also sub contractors and other asset/business owners. The art of the deal is basically screwing people over with eleventh hour demands through his army of lawyers as soon as he found himself in a position of strength and the counter party had nowhere to go. He's not one to stick to gentleman's agreements.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I do mean that genuinely as well @dirty harry

I too think it’s weird that I can’t even find one thing to praise him on. It gets to the point where I rack my brain really thinking of something and I say to myself there must be one good thing this piece of **** has done, I mean, even Hitler built some good motorways and stuff but I honestly can’t think of anything. As I say, I do find it weird and he must surely have done or said something good once and I’m happy to concede I’m not impartial and could be too Trump brained to see it which is why I’m glad you’re here to put me on the right path to help me see more clearly.

 

[dirty harry]

I do mean that genuinely as well @dirty harry

I too think it’s weird that I can’t even find one thing to praise him on. It gets to the point where I rack my brain really thinking of something and I say to myself there must be one good thing this piece of **** has done, I mean, even Hitler built some good motorways and stuff but I honestly can’t think of anything. As I say, I do find it weird and he must surely have done or said something good once and I’m happy to concede I’m not impartial and could be too Trump brained to see it which is why I’m glad you’re here to put me on the right path to help me see more clearly.

Ok well that's a starting point, even if you praised Hitler (yes i screen shot that for later).

How about we start super small?

His decision to not take a salary, was a net benefit to the country?

 

[Ddanno]

Why is everything a joke to you.

For the last time just **** off to twitter or reddit

 

[Welsh Exile]

Ok well that's a starting point, even if you praised Hitler (yes i screen shot that for later).

How about we start super small?

His decision to not take a salary, was a net benefit to the country?

Ok, that’s not a bad start and I would honestly, hand on heart, be willing to grant that had it not been for, as even yourself admitted earlier, genuine reasons but it wasn’t. It was a political/tactical ploy to garner favour in a presidential election it wasn’t done out of the goodness of his heart was it.

 

[dirty harry]

Also worth remembering that he hasn't just bankrupted himself but also sub contractors and other asset/business owners. The art of the deal is basically screwing people over with eleventh hour demands through his army of lawyers as soon as he found himself in a position of strength and the counter party had nowhere to go. He's not one to stick to gentleman's agreements.

Wait Trump has bankrupt himself? When did that happen? Granted I'm not an expert on this.

 

[dirty harry]

Ok, that’s not a bad start and I would honestly, hand on heart, be willing to grant that had it not been for, as even yourself admitted earlier, genuine reasons but it wasn’t. It was a political/tactical ploy to garner favour in a presidential election it wasn’t done out of the goodness of his heart was it.

Hang on, i 100% agree that it was a political move...

But is it a net benefit for the American public?

 

[dirty harry]

Why is everything a joke to you.

For the last time just **** off to twitter or reddit
View attachment 23732

ICE barbie isn't funny to you?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Hang on, i 100% agree that it was a political move...

But is it a net benefit for the American public?

First of all I would say net benefit is really pushing it. $1 billion is a drop in the ocean of Americas GDP so a few hundred grand a year is really insignificant to the point it’s not even worth considering.

Secondly, and more importantly, in my opinion if you’re going to attribute a moral good to a certain action you have to look at the motivation behind said action and not just the outcome.

For example, I could go down to my local homeless shelter to help out but if my reason for doing that was only to bang a woman who works there then even though it may have resulted in some positive outcomes for some homeless people it’s a bit of a stretch to say what I’m doing is morally commendable. I would even argue that in most cases, the motivation behind something is more important than the outcomes.

If I went to the same homeless shelter but for this time honourable reasons but let’s say I made a mistake and overfed one person which resulted in other people going without (bad outcome) that ranks higher on the moral scale, imo, than someone who has an ulterior motive but didn’t make any mistakes feeding people.

 

[dirty harry]

First of all I would say net benefit is really pushing it. $1 billion is a drop in the ocean of Americas GDP so a few hundred grand a year is really insignificant to the point it’s not even worth considering.

Secondly, and more importantly, in my opinion if you’re going to attribute a moral good to a certain action you have to look at the motivation behind said action and not just the outcome.

For example, I could go down to my local homeless shelter to help out but if my reason for doing that was only to bang a woman who works there then even though it may have resulted in some positive outcomes for some homeless people it’s a bit of a stretch to say what I’m doing is morally commendable. I would even argue that in most cases, the motivation behind something is more important than the outcomes.

If I went to the same homeless shelter but for this time honourable reasons but let’s say I made a mistake and overfed one person which resulted in other people going without (bad outcome) that ranks higher on the moral scale, imo, than someone who has an ulterior motive but didn’t make any mistakes feeding people.

Ok, in get your stance... but your inferring morality, when the question was 'net positive'

You can believe he is morally defunct, as Hitler was, but also acknowledge the net benefit to the USA of saving hundreds of thousands of dollars, just like building a motorway.

So you can 'praise' (or approve of) him for saving the tax payer 250k?

As an example that you know will hurt me, I can dislike Sam Costelow, think he's bad and should have 0 Wales caps, but I can praise every point he has scored for Wales.

Another is that i dislike Rachel Reeves, but I can approve of the winter fuel payment being given back to pensioners (and btw i dislike the hysteria about her needing to apologise, bad decision revoked and redressed, pat on the back IMO)

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Also worth remembering that he hasn't just bankrupted himself but also sub contractors and other asset/business owners. The art of the deal is basically screwing people over with eleventh hour demands through his army of lawyers as soon as he found himself in a position of strength and the counter party had nowhere to go. He's not one to stick to gentleman's agreements.

Not even gentleman's agreements, actual written contracts he also didn't stick to. He'd refuse to pay saying something wasn't up to "Trump standard", something that would never be defined, and would then tell them to take him to court if they disagreed.

There's a reason he did so well delaying all the court cases against him, he's got immense experience doing that to contractors.

He waits it out until they can't afford to fight it any more then wins by default. He tried the same with his university fraud but was found out before he could force the other side into financial ruin fighting him.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Ok, in get your stance... but your inferring morality, when the question was 'net positive'

You can believe he is morally defunct, as Hitler was, but also acknowledge the net benefit to the USA of saving hundreds of thousands of dollars, just like building a motorway.

So you can 'praise' (or approve of) him for saving the tax payer 250k?

As an example that you know will hurt me, I can dislike Sam Costelow, think he's bad and should have 0 Wales caps, but I can praise every point he has scored for Wales.

Another is that i dislike Rachel Reeves, but I can approve of the winter fuel payment being given back to pensioners (and btw i dislike the hysteria about her needing to apologise, bad decision revoked and redressed, pat on the back IMO)

I’m inferring morality because we’re taking about Trumps moral character and whether he has done anything good. You raise a fair(ish) point as it does result in a, albeit totally insignificant net benefit, positive outcome (just) but as I explained if I’m going to assess whether this was a morally good thing I’m going to look at the reasons behind it and in this case it just points to the moral bankruptcy of Trumps character where self promotion and gain are his main drivers. That isn’t morally good imo even if it did save the American tax payer a whopping $250k pa.

 

[McTallshort]

Not even gentleman's agreements, actual written contracts he also didn't stick to. He'd refuse to pay saying something wasn't up to "Trump standard", something that would never be defined, and would then tell them to take him to court if they disagreed.

There's a reason he did so well delaying all the court cases against him, he's got immense experience doing that to contractors.

He waits it out until they can't afford to fight it any more then wins by default. He tried the same with his university fraud but was found out before he could force the other side into financial ruin fighting him.

Yeah but he's tea total

 

[dirty harry]

Yeah but he's tea total

See @Welsh Exile Mctallhsort is in the spirit, being tea total is a net positive as a countries leader!

 

[dirty harry]

I’m inferring morality because we’re taking about Trumps moral character and whether he has done anything good. You raise a fair(ish) point as it does result in a, albeit totally insignificant net benefit, positive outcome (just) but as I explained if I’m going to assess whether this was a morally good thing I’m going to look at the reasons behind it and in this case it just points to the moral bankruptcy of Trumps character where self promotion and gain are his main drivers. That isn’t morally good imo even if it did save the American tax payer a whopping $250k pa.

But if you downplay 250k because it's insignificant to the taxpayer, you wouldn't make issue of him taking an extra 250k as a bonus no?

Mate just look at the lengths your going to, to avoid saying 'yes, saving 250k is a net benefit for the USA'.

You know, moral or not that it is 100% a net benefit, the same way you helping homeless shelter is a net benefit to those homeless people, regardless of whether you managed to get laid or not (did you? )

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm inferring morality because we're taking about Trumps moral character and whether he has done anything good. You raise a fair(ish) point as it does result in a, albeit totally insignificant net benefit, positive outcome (just) but as I explained if I'm going to assess whether this was a morally good thing I'm going to look at the reasons behind it and in this case it just points to the moral bankruptcy of Trumps character where self promotion and gain are his main drivers. That isn't morally good imo even if it did save the American tax payer a whopping $250k pa.

Especially when you consider he cost the taxpayer vastly more than that whilst in office with all his golfing etc... If he had a concern about saving the American people money, he wouldn't have charged his security services extortionate rates to stay at his properties.

It points to him clearly not giving a damn about how much he cost the taxpayers.

 

[Welsh Exile]

But if you downplay 250k because it's insignificant to the taxpayer, you wouldn't make issue of him taking an extra 250k as a bonus no?

Mate just look at the lengths your going to, to avoid saying 'yes, saving 250k is a net benefit for the USA'.

You know, moral or not that it is 100% a net benefit, the same way you helping homeless shelter is a net benefit to those homeless people, regardless of whether you managed to get laid or not (did you? )

See Ragey's response above.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Ok, I’ll tell you what, even though I disagree that it was a net positive and I certainly disagree it was a morally good action (due to motivation) I will grant it to you. Have you got anything else other than supposedly saving each American tax payer a fraction of a dollar.

 

[Yulia]

See @Welsh Exile Mctallhsort is in the spirit, being tea total is a net positive as a countries leader!

As someone who remembers Boris The Glass Yeltsin (although I was a child back then) - yeah, being teetotal is already not bad for a countries leader

 

[dirty harry]

Especially when you consider he cost the taxpayer vastly more than that whilst in office with all his golfing etc... If he had a concern about saving the American people money, he wouldn't have charged his security services extortionate rates to stay at his properties.

It points to him clearly not giving a damn about how much he cost the taxpayers.

And I agree with 100% of this (with a slight caveat that Bidens trips cost similar if not a little less. Reports Trump's Maralago trips cost 3.4m, Bidens Delaware 3m. Biden was reported to spend 11.4m in 2024, Trump in 2019 11.8m, although Trump has more adult children who travelled internationally).

Now agree him not taking a salary is a net benefit for the USA!